Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 67

Thread: PvE -> trying PvP as F2P

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
    Understanding of what a F2P player wants, or understanding as to what F2P player actually needs to do?
    This isn't league of legends.
    They aren't going to get the same access and same boxed experience everytime.
    If you think of cards like owning champions in LOL, and you think of Platinum paid tournament play as level 30 ranked in LOL. Maybe that's the best way to look at HEX in terms of f2p hamster wheel other games display.
    Except that you can play the main game of LoL the entire time. Plat play might be ranked... sure... but there is no f2p practice draft mode or anything. If you want to play f2p, you're playing PVE. The campaign helps a little in that regard, but when the advice falls back to "Grind FRA", the process of which will turn almost anyone off the game, there's a problem.

    Unranked ladder mode, with rewards equivalent to campaign (not as high as fra.. even half would be fine) would be a decent compromise. At least then people could play their decks vs real players in a kitchen-table-like scenario, and a view to future tournament play. At least then they're playing "the game". FRA is fine a few times... but godamn asking people to farm it is asking people to play another video game.

    I do like what they've done with giving away a small subset of pvp commons... but I don't think anyone would mind if they gave away all of them. Random commons for wins in an unranked ladder mode would be great for players to learn pvp and keep having things to play with. Then they'd have the basis for all these decks that they'd want to spend some money for the rares/legendaries to complete. There's pretty much no value in the packs reserved for commons anyway. Players give away heaps, but it is cumbersome for them to do so, and embarrassing for players to ask for.
    Last edited by Jugg; 02-08-2016 at 06:40 PM.

  2. #22
    its not for everyone. It's a unique game with a unique marketing model. It's still a little early to remove beta-tag, as there are still wheels for new players, but it is a lot better than where it was. Once people start playing, and understand why this marketing model is in place for this game. If they enjoy the game enough, they will keep playing, and might throw money at it. I don't see how this is worst than many other CCGs in the arena now, it's just missing the older market standard of grinding through dailies, which is bullshit anyways. This is also a TCG, not a CCG, so once people catch on, and know money = money; not money = nothing, they might be a little less reluctant to sign-up.

  3. #23
    The Transcended
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    7,860
    Quote Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
    This is also a TCG, not a CCG, so once people catch on, and know money = money; not money = nothing, they might be a little less reluctant to sign-up.
    People figuring out that stuff here has real world cash value is actually quite huge and it's unfortunate that gaming laws make it so that Hex can't advertise that very well. All the Hearthstone grinding in the world is worth jack squat if you ever want to cash out. Meanwhile, cashing out Hex is relatively easy and will only get easier as the game grows and 3rd party sites stabilize and establish themselves.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jugg View Post
    Except that you can play the main game of LoL the entire time. Plat play might be ranked... sure... but there is no f2p practice draft mode or anything. If you want to play f2p, you're playing PVE. The campaign helps a little in that regard, but when the advice falls back to "Grind FRA", the process of which will turn almost anyone off the game, there's a problem.
    That's the thing, actually.
    By not letting people glimpse into PvP at a _reasonable_ rate, you're not really providing them any incentive to farm or pay for something they have no positive experience with.

    I've seen the same thing in EVE multiple times:
    PvE players will grind to sustain their PvE game, if they are not forced into/introduced to the fun aspects of PvP. IF they are hooked into PvP (seen that happen with 'hardcore' PvErs) they are less likely to spend time grinding, since that gets taken away from the time they get to hunt other players. So they tend to be more willing to invest real money in renewing their subscription.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Chinane View Post
    That's the thing, actually.
    By not letting people glimpse into PvP at a _reasonable_ rate, you're not really providing them any incentive to farm or pay for something they have no positive experience with.

    I've seen the same thing in EVE multiple times:
    PvE players will grind to sustain their PvE game, if they are not forced into/introduced to the fun aspects of PvP. IF they are hooked into PvP (seen that happen with 'hardcore' PvErs) they are less likely to spend time grinding, since that gets taken away from the time they get to hunt other players. So they tend to be more willing to invest real money in renewing their subscription.
    They hinted at a "PvE Dungeon" that mimics the draft experience for newer players. If they give a mock draft to new players, that does not provide prizes, would it just give them a false sense of what a draft or sealed is? Would it allow them to grind it so they never had to play the real deal?

    I mean, you look on the general forums, and there are guys there right now complaining about bad game design because they are trained not to go to the river at the second bridge.... People don't read. People want instant gratification. People that like a particular game-mode that is easily accessible will find ways to play it. A free draft or sealed mock-up event should never be easily accessible.

    Edit: You define PvP access at a "Reasonable Rate", the problem is you aren't defining why and what is "Reasonable" by your definition. "Reasonable Rate" for access now makes sense to players that spend money and grind PvE to play it. It doesn't make sense to players that don't. It has everything to do with the marketing model, and unfortunately, with that comes less acceptance through the F2P player global demographic of "full-range access instantly and pay for cosmetics"...
    Last edited by nicosharp; 02-09-2016 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Chinane View Post
    That's the thing, actually.
    By not letting people glimpse into PvP at a _reasonable_ rate, you're not really providing them any incentive to farm or pay for something they have no positive experience with.

    I've seen the same thing in EVE multiple times:
    PvE players will grind to sustain their PvE game, if they are not forced into/introduced to the fun aspects of PvP. IF they are hooked into PvP (seen that happen with 'hardcore' PvErs) they are less likely to spend time grinding, since that gets taken away from the time they get to hunt other players. So they tend to be more willing to invest real money in renewing their subscription.
    Players are deciding what is reasonable. I am sure that is the sort of transition hex is looking for but they aren't going to tank the economy to do it.

    It's a hard road no doubt. People are going have show some real mastery of game and some serious grind tolerance to follow it while we wait for more rooms Cory's tree house to be be built.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
    There are plenty of ways to break-down the marketing model, and posts here that do it. The problem is, it takes a lot of time, and reading to understand why, and that doesn't work for the F2P instant-gratification generation.

    Too Long Didn't Read:
    The game can be played completely F2P - Both PvE and PvP. All formats. PvP Tournament play for free, requires aggressive use of trading and the auction house, and converting a significant amount of PvE time farming into PvP currency.
    My opinion as a new player here, learning curve is the bigest ISSUE of the game now.

    As a new player, end-game PvP (Tournaments) is SUPER HARDCORE MODE to learn, the learning curve is amazingly hard.

    I bought the game 3 days ago, loved it, did a bit of PvE, but figured out real quick that end-game (tournaments) will drive me to DRAFTS (WTF is that ?) tournaments that last 2/3hours long (WHAT? I got a life issues) and cost around 7€ (OK, next game please). And I probably gonna do a LOT of crap my first games, with few chance to win anything and loose money, etc... PLUS: Absolutly nothing teach me to get into this super hardmore tournaments in the game.

    My reaction ? Should I keep playing that game that sound like a scam to me, I gonna get beaten by super geeks playing it h24 on tournaments, or should i leave and play something more new player friendly ? I really though I was leaving. To me, this is the biggest issue of the game, tournaments are super hard for a new player perspective. 90% players will try HEX, try PvE, and be scared by tournaments. You have to learn how to draft, learn the meta, learn cards, see how to play, watch youtube, watch twitch, learn how to buy packs etc... You basciely have to study the whole game before jumping into tournaments

    SOLUTIONS:

    - Easy and cheaper tournaments (Constructed, only commons / uncos, 1 pack to enter, cheap and effective),
    - Simple matchmaking arenas: 1 pack to enter, if you win 10 games straight you win X packs.
    - Construct, Sealed, Draft, all those things should be explained with an easy vidéo tutorial.

    To me, the game miss a LOT of things between super easy PvE, and super hard learning curve mega hard mode tournaments. There should be tournaments/arenas in between to learn the game.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jull View Post
    SOLUTIONS:

    - Easy and cheaper tournaments (Constructed, only commons / uncos, 1 pack to enter, cheap and effective),
    - Simple matchmaking arenas: 1 pack to enter, if you win 10 games straight you win X packs.
    - Construct, Sealed, Draft, all those things should be explained with an easy vidéo tutorial.

    To me, the game miss a LOT of things between super easy PvE, and super hard learning curve mega hard mode tournaments. There should be tournaments/arenas in between to learn the game.
    Do new poker players pay cash to sit at a table when they don't even know how to play poker?
    I think you need to be more self-aware of risks you are taking before you take the risks...

    Have some ownership over your expenses, or learn from bad beats. Everyone is different in how they approach and consume competitive content, especially when there is a gambling, skill, and financial aspect to it.

    Easy and Cheap tournaments exist! 100 plat, Head to Head for 1 pack tournaments... Community hosted tournaments - Like Rock League - General Forums here - Exactly the mode you speak of.

    Simple matching making arena exist, and the price is there for a reason - that HXE values your collection, and want it to maintain value... Join Sealed gauntlet. (It's the HEX arena, and yes, there is a cost, but you get value no matter what.)

    Constructed Sealed and Draft explanations in client are needed - but the developers giving players "advice" on how to consume it has to be very precisely handled, as players could argue the information provided hindered their experience. That is why I say having self-awareness here and doing personal research regardless of the content the client provides, is vital to you feeling like you weren't donkey punched.

    Here is a link for you:
    http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24477
    Last edited by nicosharp; 02-22-2016 at 02:40 PM.

  9. #29
    Gauntlet really need some explanations in client. I think only a few new players understand how it's work.

  10. #30
    The Transcended
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    7,860
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregangel View Post
    Gauntlet really need some explanations in client. I think only a few new players understand how it's work.
    Especially so since Sealed Gauntlet is probably the most newbie friendly and is a ton of fun even for veterans.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •