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Thread: Dream Deck with equipment is crazy.

  1. #301
    I tried all day today. Made who knows how many decks trying to get some form of success. The closest I came was a Wild / Sapphire / Ruby deck that used the dream cards as part of a combo with azurefate sorceress and ruby of destruction where I would dump the troops into grave and then play Azurefate Sorceress followed by Enter the Dream and it would one-shot the opponent.

    But the work that went into getting the thresholds and having to assemble even more pieces to make it work meant I was looking at a very slow combo and a deck that had zero room for removal/survival cards to sustain until the stars aligned. At minimum, you need triple wild, double sapphire and one ruby shard. Even running x4 Chlorophyllia's with hat and x4 Adaptable Infusion Devices, it was massively difficult to get all these shards on line.

    The problem with the Dream deck is that the dream troops are largely crap on their own, with Dream Eagle being the sole exception because it's dig effect is so powerful. The entire reason the Dream deck even had value was because it could get these troops out quickly. Getting a couple 5/5's out on T2? That will win you the game. Getting a couple 5/5's on T7 with nothing else on board? That's garbage and you're probably already dead.

    It can't take that much effort to push out relatively mediocre troops. If I need to have multiple shard fixers, EtD, and a couple dream troops just to have a couple okay troops out by T3-4 with an absolutely perfect hand, that's not very good. Then, you have to take into account that the rest of the deck is horribly diluted because it's filled with shard fixers and support cards to facilitate this one interaction; which means you're unlikely to draw into more dream cards to chain together a come back round of troop revives. So if your couple of meh troops die, you have no back up plan.

    I have no particular fondness for the dream deck, but it's basically gone. Enter the Dream remains a great card in it's own right, if you're casting it. And Dream Eagle has a place in Sapphire primary decks, but it's lost it splashability. It is kind of lame how out of the dream troops, it's the only one that requires a double threshold.

    And as far as PvE nerfs go, sure other cards have been nerfed for bots and orcs, but you know the difference? The difference is that bot/dwarf affinity and orcs/ruby agro are still top tier decks where as this nerf did not leave a top tier deck behind, it killed the deck and quite a bit of utility of the cards in general.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by ossuary View Post
    They went WAY too far, and the changes they implemented didn't actually fix what they purported to be fixing (the lack of interaction). If you actually do build a piece of this deck with a subset of the cards and miraculously manage to get the idiotic panoply of thresholds they now require to even activate the effects, it still works exactly the same as it used to - you dump a ton of troops on the board all at once during your opponent's end step, and kill them in one shot. It's just virtually impossible to do so anymore (so why bother even trying). If they wanted to still have a dream deck, they should have altered how the cards actually work, or add a cost to them, instead of just slapping a ridiculous shitload of thresholds on everything. As it stands, these cards might as well not even exist anymore (again, except for eagle).
    While I agree the dream deck essentially dead I cannot agree with this rest of this paragraph. One of the interactions they mentioned (and to me at least, the main interaction they focused on) is thresholds and how the old version of the cards completely ignored them. This is in fact fixed with these changes so that problem at least was solved.

    All that said, I still think the cards themselves will find their places in other decks. Even if they don't fit now the fact remains that free effects are rarely something that can be ignored entirely.

  3. #303
    I can see that the individual dream cards could be used in different decks as well except for enter the dream equipment dream staff. Ok not all equipments are good in the first place but i think they should try to make it useful. What i suggest is instead of triple wild threshold, split it into 5 parts, 1 for each of the 5 shard. Fulfilling each of the shard will enable the ability to bring troops of its respective shard back from the crypt.

  4. #304
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    I think that a Wild/Sapphire/(Diamond) Dream Deck with non-cycle dream troops (Dreamcatcher, Stag, Puck, Eldricth Dreamer, Indigo Dreamwalker etc.) could possibly work, and be very resilient to mass removal, but currently I don't have the cards or the time to test the idea.

    Stargazer and Dream Dance could help with discards.

    For thresholds it can have howling brave, Howling Plains Bluegrass, etc.

    I agree that it won't work as a 5 shard deck, if they won't give us futher threshold fixing at Set 4.
    Last edited by Cainhu; 04-11-2016 at 01:35 AM. Reason: some additions

  5. #305
    A onesided resurect for a bunch of mediocre creatures is not really good tho. You could just as easily just play more resilient creatures like master moss instead of having a dead card in your hand half the time.
    Member of The Unnamed Council - the Hex TCG PvE Guild
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  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
    However, I did not read anywhere that the intent was to make it so that if someone wanted to play all 24 cards together/all 6 equipment, they were forced to hit more unique thresholds than any other combo deck in existence to achieve it.
    You seem to think it's unreasonable for a deck running cards with a large number of unique thresholds to have to hit those thresholds to be effective. That seems pretty silly to me.

    Which is why I explained that "all 24 cards" is a cycle spanning all 5 shards. And thus you should be expecting that to be a 5 shard deck. And that comes with related costs (need to deal with a large number of unique threshold requirements).

    The article did touch on this. You're not suppsoed to get "sapphire" effects without having to support sapphire cards with the right resource base.

    The dream cards remind me of slivers from MTG. The Tempest cycle, was largely a curiosity. They were obviously designed to work together, but running 5 colors to support a bunch of 1/1 and 2/2 creatures wasn't really worth it even with their shared abilities. That didn't stop people from trying however. And the frequency with which they "bring back" slivers seems to indicate that people liked playing with them.

    As of the last time I looked into it the much wider range of slivers and fixers printed had made the process of building a 5 color sliver deck mostly a challenge of deciding which slivers to exclude. And the resulting deck could be pretty powerful in casual circles, but it was by no means a top tier deck. A 2 color deck that used slivers would be faster and more reliable, because dealing with all 5 colors always adds unreliability.

    I think the dream cards and equipment were supposed to be more like that 5 color sliver deck. Mostly a curiosity, obviously intended to work together, but ultimately more practical when using only a portion of the cycle. And possibly establishing a design pattern for future cards to expand.

  7. #307
    No point anymore to continue the conversation. The rest of my quote you left off, addresses your entire response.

  8. #308
    A 5 color deck with a key card that is 3 wild threshold is doomed.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazelbain View Post
    A 5 color deck with a key card that is 3 wild threshold is doomed.
    Set 4 promises a lot of shard fixing but you're probably right.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrender View Post
    Set 4 promises a lot of shard fixing but you're probably right.
    It's also 8 unique threshold to only achieve discard effects, 11 unique threshold if you actually want to play all the cards out. Without utilizing other PvE equipment to stretch to that, or dedicating all other 36 cards to fixing entirely. The goal achieved by the change is that only a very specific Sapphire/Wild deck can make optimal use of the current dream card interactions. With already severely limited success, and the same non-interactivity.

    The Dream Eagle effect is still amazing stand-alone, and all other Dream cards can find places in other decks utilizing equipment. There is no longer glue though to make Enter the Dream function with them all in a realistic PvE setting.

    I do hope we eventually see an awesome rainbow threshold keystone ability for Necrotic. It may once again open up for some unique deck-building paths towards the end of the campaign.

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