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Thread: PvP state of affairs

  1. #1

    PvP state of affairs

    Hey all,

    I've been rather disappointed with tournaments firing lately, a.k.a. they just having been happening that much, at least not as much as they would have in the past with a promo (pucid) going on. Now that the promo is over, it's been 45+ minutes for a draft to fire, and a solidly long wait in the gauntlets. I hope I am wrong in this, but I don't think the wait for tournaments and gauntlet rounds to fire have ever been this bad.

    I know that a great deal of the lack of inactivity is the absence of set 4, but I think it goes well beyond the longer-than-we'd-like refresh on PvP cards this time around.

    So beyond the new set, there are three things I think detracting from PvP activity:

    1) The release of PvE. (natural refocus on new content)
    2) No PvE jumping between PvP rounds or draft picks.
    3) Bad navigation/placement/spring-boarding to the tournament area. <- Parts of this could be a 'quick' fix.


    On 2, we've always talked about that, but I think we underestimated the importance of being able to jump to PvE as we wait on PvP things. As a casual PvP player, I've mostly given up PvP for the 'always there for you when you want it' bit of PvE. The Hex icon on my computer now means a different thing than before, and when I click it, I want instant play, which PvP doesn't offer at the moment (and less so with each passing day it seems). So I think of Hex less as PvP now and more as PvE. I just can't get fired up by PvP due to the tremendous wait times with nothing to do but staring at text or waiting for the next round, etc. Adding in gateways that let you continue to progress on your PvP would be great, though I hate to say with the 17 card addition the draft process is still a bit too slow even with that feature coming; I'd love to have a second window open for PvP and jam on that as I wait for the next card pick.

    For 3: there are two issues here, one that is hopefully a bit easier to fix, and that is an easy way to get to tournaments. Right now it's off-putting to navigate there. I know how labyrinthine any sort of minor change is for HexEnt, but I'd be willing to sacrifice the 'mail' icon in the upper right quick nav for a few patches for a direct line to the tournament section. Since it's primarily used to check an AH post or a trade, I don't mind clicking a few extra times to get mail at the moment. (I'd love a quick nav button to my card collection as well, but I wouldn't know what to sacrifice...)

    Ultimately, I like the aesthetics of the UI more than before, but functionally it makes it look solely like a PvE game. Combine that with point 2 and I think we have a big issue that goes beyond the lack of releasing a new set. It looks and feels like a PvE game; PvP is almost hidden at this point, and in the attempts to springboard new players on via PvE, PvP feels ridiculously slow, overwhelming, and a side-thought in comparison. That's obviously not the case, but it just kind of feels that way, especially if I try and look at it from a new player's perspective. I worry that due to this new PvP players will lean more on the competitive side, probably TCG veterans from other games, leaving casual PvP players like myself feeling like we don't belong in the area as much as we used to and new players staring down an intimidating entry into the wonderful world that is Hex PvP.

    What makes this all worse is that without raids and guilds, a new player's 'feel' for how active the game only really comes from chat, and when they do journey into the PvP area, they see something that is a bit stagnant.

    I know set 4 will energize PvP play, but these other things are needless weights on growing the game in general from my perspective. What do other people think?
    Last edited by fido_one; 02-17-2016 at 06:09 AM.

  2. #2
    I should note one other thing, and if I caught myself saying this a year or two ago I'd have put my head on a platter as a result, but the influx of PvP commons via the PvE campaign has changed my mind on this:

    I wouldn't be averse to a one-off (maybe when you max level your PvE character) draft ticket via PvE. I know it would mess with the economy pretty bad... but:

    I've spent a lot of money on drafts and tournaments since alpha but before Hex came about I never would have put my toe in the PvP pool, ever. The reason I got into it is because of the draft tickets that came with KS. They introduced me to TCG competitive play in general - I wanted to use that ticket. Though I dislike the game, it's the same reason I tried out competitive play in Solforge, in that I received a 'free' draft ticket.

    I do think for those that get a ticket via PvE and don't like the experience it might not effect the economy too much as I would imagine getting one would be a big time sink (again, something like leveling a character to 30 levels or what-have-you). On the flip side, you'd get people like me who suddenly find themselves spending money on the PvP side of things after that first taste due to how awesome it is.

  3. #3
    I really really really think you underestimate how badly the no new set is hurting the competitive scene. We are fast approaching a year of set 3 and that kills a competitive scene dead faster then you would believe.

    To your points though.

    1.) While this may be a slight detractor for the most part Pve is just a dressed up frost ring arena. Nothing particularly new or exciting and I personally haven't seen the puzzle fights. create lot's of x/1's got it do board wide 1 damage. getting hit my toxcified troops got it prevent getting hit. having 60 gnomes in a deck got it pray to RNgesus you get something resembling a hand. I would assume mosst competitive players have figured this out and those still playing PvE are mostly the same people who would grind frost ring after it had been out for a bit.

    2.) No idea why this would be a factor. We didn't have it before and we don't have it now. People find things to do between rounds regardless of PvE availability.

    3.) While not a fan of the new AI as I too believe it hides a lot of the features I don't believe it is a problem. It is not particularly difficult to find tournaments and you can always ask in chat where to go to join. Plus once you have joined one you will probably remember how to join them from then on.

    The lack of tournaments firing is 99% no new content 8 months (currently is just absolutely ridiculous amount of time to go between sets)

    To reinforce just how badly set 4 is needed. These complaints about long wait times came up well before PVE released.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by incitfulmonk21 View Post

    To reinforce just how badly set 4 is needed. These complaints about long wait times came up well before PVE released.
    I appreciate the emphasis on how much set 4 is needed, but I still disagree. I'd say that before PvE wait times were not juxtaposed with ready-and-waiting content that is immediate (well Frost Ring, but that grew stale due to lack of content). From a casual PvP player's perspective like myself, it has changed it from 'an annoying wait' to 'I'd rather be playing PvE and not waiting at all'. <- I hate saying that, but it's true. I didn't expect to have that reaction either, and did not realize it until after completing the PvE campaign.

    Also, the 17 card pack, while necessary, has exacerbated the issue for drafts at least.

  5. #5
    Most backers do no longer have their "free-draft" each week.
    About 4000 free draft-ticked each week mean 500 drafts a week (71 a day or 3 each hour), not counting new drafts paid with the winnings of the drafts before. Now we have only about 1000 draft-tickets each week, that means about 1 draft each hour.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by fido_one View Post
    I appreciate the emphasis on how much set 4 is needed, but I still disagree. I'd say that before PvE wait times were not juxtaposed with ready-and-waiting content that is immediate (well Frost Ring, but that grew stale due to lack of content). From a casual PvP player's perspective like myself, it has changed it from 'an annoying wait' to 'I'd rather be playing PvE and not waiting at all'. <- I hate saying that, but it's true. I didn't expect to have that reaction either, and did not realize it until after completing the PvE campaign.

    Also, the 17 card pack, while necessary, has exacerbated the issue for drafts at least.
    I think I am understanding your point 2 a little better. I still believe that most people tend to find something to do while they wait and that while they may be more annoyed with longer wait times I just don't see it as being enough to contribute to a lack of PvP all together.

    If your solution was that we were able to PvE how would that increase the rate of tournaments firing as opposed to just tabbing over and doing something else while you wait?

  7. #7
    I also think the additional cards in the pack have hurt limited. Hopefully they will balance out set 4 with more junk commons and uncommons.

    I dont think this game can offer free drafts in any way unless they use some type of token method (and it would have to take alot of grinding to get the tokens). IMO this is probably the most glaring problem of Hex. It is 2016 not 2002 when I was playing mtgo on my gaming laptop.

    I have pretty much have a full playset of set 3 and the value in the set just isnt there like other sets.
    Last edited by plaguedealer; 02-17-2016 at 07:17 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by fido_one View Post
    I wouldn't be averse to a one-off (maybe when you max level your PvE character) draft ticket via PvE. I know it would mess with the economy pretty bad... but:
    I like the basic idea that new players could take a free look in tournaments, but this will definitly not happen. If you just give a free draft ticket, players will just make new accounts and farm this. And it would introduce the first source of pvp packs/plat that can be aquired from pve. All packs has to be paid with plat or it would devalue all the pvp cards.

    Maybe they could introduce a special draft tickets. With these ticket you don't keep the cards and win no prices. So players could test a draft, but no inflationary effect on the market. But i am not sure, what the real implications of that would be.


    Creator of shareyourdraft.com / Forum thread IGN: dBug Twitch: dBug404

  9. #9
    It is a shame that they have this great pve, which IMO is the best card game experience ever and they dont have a easy way to funnel those pve people into pvp.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by incitfulmonk21 View Post
    I think I am understanding your point 2 a little better. I still believe that most people tend to find something to do while they wait and that while they may be more annoyed with longer wait times I just don't see it as being enough to contribute to a lack of PvP all together.

    If your solution was that we were able to PvE how would that increase the rate of tournaments firing as opposed to just tabbing over and doing something else while you wait?
    Good question - that's what I've always done, but the game, to me at least, has changed from 'something you keep on the secondary monitor and pop to your primary when play starts' to 'I want to play Hex, I can play it now without impediment in PvE, or can wait for the stop-and-go routine with a tournament when it fires.'

    I'm not always opening the client with a clear goal in mind, a.k.a. I'm not saying 'I want to play PvP right now', more like 'I want to play some Hex.' When the client opens, I have PvE. PvP on a good day requires some sort of wait. I prefer a game with guaranteed 'game time' on my terms for timing and focus reasons, not on when/if enough people come together. While I always tabbed/swapped-monitors it still makes for a dicey work flow when I have to stop in medias res on a project as a tournament is finally getting enough momentum. Hex PvE, Xcom 2, etc have been replacing PvP as it's just easier to say 'you can game for 30-60 minutes straight right now and it's a good breaking point' as opposed to wait a short to long bit for a tournament to fire, wait a short to long bit for everyone to construct a deck, wait between rounds, etc. The issue becomes more extreme as less people play (and I still believe unneeded impediments exist for PvP on boarding, such as UI and how the game approaches newbies that could reduce the wait times). Gauntlet addressed some of this (albeit not with drafts of course), but even that has had some long wait times to fire as of late.

    Give me the ability to seamlessly go to PvE and the Hex gaming sessions become as focused as a full PvE run or another game like Xcom 2. I've tried PvPing something like Hex and then switching over to another video game for my gaming sessions but it's too jarring, for me at least.

    Real quick note on all of my gibberish, I don't think PvP is doomed or this is the beginning-of-the-end, I'm just trying to underline the importance of a consistent experience and how it affects the player base for non-competitive players like me. Apologies if I'm coming off as all doom and gloom.

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