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Thread: Booster draft format is ridiculous if players leave

  1. #1

    Booster draft format is ridiculous if players leave

    How the 8 player booster draft should go: the winners of the first four matches should player each other while the losers do the same. The final round should have the two undefeated players playing and the two players that lost both matches playing while all of the 1-1's match up with an attempt made to avoid repeat matches.

    I played in a booster draft a few days ago where someone lost in the first round, then left. I was operating under the assumption that the draft format above would still apply and the person who left would match up against someone who lost in the first round and the person who lost their first two games in the last round. I happened to be that person who lost my first two games, but instead of being matched up against the bye and at least getting 1 pack out of the tournament, I got matched up against someone who had won at least one game while the "bye" matched up against some other guy that won at least one game. I ended out losing all 3 games, and in a tournament format where only one person should go away without winning a pack, both myself and the person who left did. Unacceptable.

    I played in another 8 player booster draft today and this time two people left after the draft was finished. Instead of putting two bye's in and awarding wins accordingly, they turned it into a 6 player tournament and once again players who lost got matched up against players who won. Due to this ridiculous format decision, HEX gets to collect entry fees for 8 players (which should reward 12 packs) and only reward 9 packs. At least in my first example all of the packs were paid out, just in an illogical way. Today's experience can't continue. If players want to draft purposefully weak decks so they can fill out their collection, that's great, but HEX can't then pretend like they were never in the tournament, remove their prizes, and force the rest of us to play a format we didn't sign up for. This is two tournaments now where more than one person left without a pack.

  2. #2
    Odd that they haven't found a solution for Swiss.

    I know in single elimination draft, they have it setup where the people who drop out before R1 won't get awarded a win.

    I've seen tournaments where there's only been 6 people left and it awarded byes to two different people that stayed, which it should.

    Sorry that it happened to you in Swiss. I'd also report this in the bug forums as packs should not get eaten by people dropping out.
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    Id like to apologize for the above statement. I commented in a very juvenile and offensive way that rightfully angered some posters. I regret it and sincerely apologize.

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  3. #3
    https://www.hextcg.com/scheduled-tou...wiss-pairings/

    I was able to dig up the above article. This is the intent at the time (June 2014) for swiss pairing.
    Last edited by cavench; 02-23-2016 at 02:18 PM.

  4. #4
    They order it in an attempt to have people play games, instead of ordering it so you don't play and wait an hour.

    I don't agree with it, but it's what they do.

    It'd be way too complicated to have (and explain) a "I want the free win" checkbox, so they have to choose one way or the other. They choose to have that invisible checkbox off. :P

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by cavench View Post
    https://www.hextcg.com/scheduled-tou...wiss-pairings/

    I was able to dig up the above article. This is the intent at the time (June 2014) for swiss pairing.
    Exactly that. The way you describe it, it looks like giving you the bye would have forced a pairing where two players would have to play against each other for a second time. Preventing that is of higher priority than ensuring that the bye goes to the player with the lowest record. The pairings went exactly as expected.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LashtonBryth View Post
    How the 8 player booster draft should go: the winners of the first four matches should player each other while the losers do the same. The final round should have the two undefeated players playing and the two players that lost both matches playing while all of the 1-1's match up with an attempt made to avoid repeat matches.

    I played in a booster draft a few days ago where someone lost in the first round, then left. I was operating under the assumption that the draft format above would still apply and the person who left would match up against someone who lost in the first round and the person who lost their first two games in the last round. I happened to be that person who lost my first two games, but instead of being matched up against the bye and at least getting 1 pack out of the tournament, I got matched up against someone who had won at least one game while the "bye" matched up against some other guy that won at least one game. I ended out losing all 3 games, and in a tournament format where only one person should go away without winning a pack, both myself and the person who left did. Unacceptable.

    I played in another 8 player booster draft today and this time two people left after the draft was finished. Instead of putting two bye's in and awarding wins accordingly, they turned it into a 6 player tournament and once again players who lost got matched up against players who won. Due to this ridiculous format decision, HEX gets to collect entry fees for 8 players (which should reward 12 packs) and only reward 9 packs. At least in my first example all of the packs were paid out, just in an illogical way. Today's experience can't continue. If players want to draft purposefully weak decks so they can fill out their collection, that's great, but HEX can't then pretend like they were never in the tournament, remove their prizes, and force the rest of us to play a format we didn't sign up for. This is two tournaments now where more than one person left without a pack.
    Are you playing swiss draft so that you can play the games or so that you can win packs?

    If winning packs is what is important you should be playing competitive draft. If playing games is important then you don't want a bye.

    In swiss draft you get a pack per win. You won 0 rounds and got 0 packs, seems fine to me.

    To me it just sounds like you are salty you didn't get a free pack.

    Edit: I just checked in the client. It says nothing about the payouts you described. It says very clear that number of wins = number of packs
    Last edited by magic_gazz; 02-23-2016 at 02:42 PM.

  7. #7
    The Transcended
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    I empathize with your pain on this. The Competitive queue had a similar problem to this a while back, but that's now fixed.

    I want to note that you really don't know whether all 12 packs were awarded or not. It is entirely possible to leave the tournament and still get packs, so I think it's likely that the quitter in your queue effectively "stole" your prize pack(s). I agree that both (reducing prizes or giving prizes to the wrong people) are horrible ways to handle things. Regardless of how they do pairings for play value (which is a laudable goal for the Swiss queue), they should also make sure to award prizes with preference toward players who actually play. Players who leave should forfeit all remaining prizes they might have won, even when the pairings put multiple leavers against each other. When two leavers are matched, that's fine (it makes for more fun for the ones who stay), but the prize pack from that pair should be sent up into the pool for the players who stick around (the algorithm for that could get tricky).

  8. #8
    Just award as many byes as you need, but don't pair two forfeited players against each other. Simple solution that would cause very few complaints.

  9. #9
    The Transcended
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    Quote Originally Posted by LNQ View Post
    Just award as many byes as you need, but don't pair two forfeited players against each other. Simple solution that would cause very few complaints.
    That goes against one of the top priorities of Swiss, which is to have players actually playing. You're right for Competitive, and this is exactly what they do there. As I said above, it's actually a great idea to match the leavers against each other so long as the prize pool stays only among the players who actually play. What this would mean is that the pack for whichever leaver wins the leaver pairing would need to be credited up to the lowest ranked player who actually bothered to stay.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoss View Post
    That goes against one of the top priorities of Swiss, which is to have players actually playing. You're right for Competitive, and this is exactly what they do there. As I said above, it's actually a great idea to match the leavers against each other so long as the prize pool stays only among the players who actually play. What this would mean is that the pack for whichever leaver wins the leaver pairing would need to be credited up to the lowest ranked player who actually bothered to stay.
    There are no prizes for leavers. It is a pack per win, it is not 3/2/2/2/1/1/1/0

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