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  1. #11
    The Transcended
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    I fully agree about having better hand-holding for ALL the game's features. There should be an entire web of tooltips, tutorials, and hints that provide guidance all the way from account creation to basic learning, to campaign, to auction house, to arena, to chat, to mail (and trade), to integration with the PvP tournament scene (and more). All the better if they can do it in style, like through Campaign quests.

    That said, they desperately need to get out at least two PvP sets per year, and also have at least one, probably at least two, big tournaments each year as well.

  2. #12
    Hi Wuggalix, welcome to the game and excellent first few posts with a lot of great, honest feedback.

    I agree that a serious organized play program needs to be announced, hopefully this will happen at the Invitational or soon thereafter. More MTG players are finally starting to give this game a look and having a nice digital 'pro' circuit would do wonders for the game. I think a lot of people who come over from MTG, if they give the game a try, end up liking it (a lot of us who KSed this game were initially MTG fans as well) but it's hard to expect them to drop a few hundreds dollars and invest all that time when there's no serious competitive scene around.

    If you can get just a few top level MTG pros to stream your game and talk about it, the masses will soon follow as the buzz spreads. I mean I don't know if MTG pros will ever adopt Hex as their MAIN game but I don't see any reason why it can't be a supplement to them since it's so convenient to play it digitally. I think initially this is the angle that Hex should use to market their organized play "be a TCG pro by playing anytime, anywhere" - which should resonate with some TCG pros from other offline based games who are used to having to travel all around the country at the moment.

    5S, ESL, and other community tournaments have done a great job at holding things over but it is time now for HxE to step up and reveal their plan. We've heard before about some regional and world championship plans, and I'm not sure what's the best format but I do have a few ideas:

    -I hope that whole winner-takes-all-format in the IQs was a one-off thing and isn't repeated. Some point system for finishing in top 1/2/4/8/16/32/64 will go a long way in motivating many more people to stay in the race and keep playing/keep coming back.

    -Put top heavy $ prizes in these tournaments and maybe throw a few packs to those in top 32 or whatever. Make people excited to spend their weekend playing this - charge entry fee on top if you have to (if people are paying 500 plat to enter VIP tourney, they should be willing to pay 1000 plat to enter this big $ tourney...throw in some sleeves/AAs in there if you feel bad about charging so much).

    -I've voiced this before but I think towards the end it was too brutal to get enough IQ tickets with schedule tournaments. Players are already going to be facing each other in big tourneys on weekends, no need to force these scheduled events. Give the equivalent of 3 IQ tickets for 5-0, 2 tickets for 5-x and 1 ticket for 4-x.

    -I personally think a ladder does help the game. But I don't think a ladder system like HS would be good for Hex at all (no one would play the pay modes). Finishing the ladder at a certain rank can give you a few points at the end of the month towards the overall leaderboard (say the equivalent of one of the IQ like 'big weekend tournaments'). Players wouldn't be forced to grind this 24/7 but those with enough dedication could get a few 'extra points' if you will.

    -So the players with the top points through X months (earned as mentioned above through the weekend tournament or the ladder-end-of-month bonus) would get invited to an Invitational style tournament with big prizes.

    This way players have short term (weekend IQ like tourney with $ payout), medium term (monthly ladder ranking), and long term (quarterly or bi-annual Invitational qualifier leaderboard) goals.

    That's just one way they could do it, would be interested to hear others opinions on this.

  3. #13
    Master Theorycrafter
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwinz View Post
    hardly, set 4 wil be only temporary boost for pvp.
    I guess I was implicitly assuming that Set 4 will be the start of regular set releases

  4. #14
    top-heavy prizes would reduce the number of participants even if it increases the quality of decks. i don't think that's good until there are way more players.

    better prizes could just involve giving packs for the next set as rewards. no amount of set 3 packs will be exciting to players who have all the good cards from set 3.

    as for staleness, i don't see why there can't be a swiss tournament every week for a fresh format. it should be trivial for a digital game to run deck restriction checks. crowdfund the prizepool if needed.

  5. #15
    Infernal Professor
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Fifth Circle of Hell
    Quote Originally Posted by Voormas View Post
    I guess I was implicitly assuming that Set 4 will be the start of regular set releases
    Infinite things are implicit in any statement, it's a vacuous point.

  6. #16
    1) Consistency and sets releases : I have no doubt that this will be solved over time, and that Hex will find new interesting and special events (flashback, holiday etc) to create that feeling of a "living game"... So while it might be a current issue, it will hopefully be solved by the end of 2016 with a decent pace of releases.

    2) Casual formats : Even if I agree that it would be a welcomed addition for many casual players (2HG, etc) , most multiplayer formats looks like a real nightmare for the devs to code and implement... So I would keep that in mind, but for when the game is much more developed than it is right now. Also, the casual players have been given a whole new playground with the launch of AZ1, which kinda make up for it.

    3) PVE to PVP link :
    I do agree that the current link between them is far from straightforward, and new players that have been through the campaign are not directly introduced to PVP. While this is not a major concern to me, a slight introduction to PVP might help (and yeah that 1 draft ticket per account after completing something big enough for people not to farm accounts is a great idea).

    4) Organized competitive play :
    I am also hoping that something will be announced at the invitational, and I shall add that I will be pretty disappointed if this is not the case. Not by itself or because I'm expecting it, but because the lack of announcements on that matter would have a lot of meanings on the future.

    5) Bring well-known Pro/Writers :
    to me the best thing that happen to the game in 2016 so far is the creation of a column with Adrian Sullivan on the official website. This is to me the promise of a bright future with even more well known and appreciated people coming to Hex. Regarding the Pros, Hex will obviously have a hard time for now to bring any pro (from MTG) into the game, streaming and introducing even more players to Hex... Because as it is right now, only the adventurers would put themselves into Hex, as there is literally no money to be made here.
    HS drained several Pros from MTG (Kibler of course, but I know at least 2 former mtgo grinders that are now top HS streamers)... But there is money to be made in HS.
    I don't think there's a secret recipe here, if you introduce money to be made, then you will have highly visible players that will be willing to promote the game for you, you'll then get a lot of new players influx (mostly competitive, or wannabe competitive, but also a decent amount of casual players), end then the money come back to the game... But it's not a zero sum investment, as during the process you'll just got bigger, so anything you'll do in the future will have more impact (and be more profitable).

    6) IQs / slots / Leaderboard :
    I'm perfectly fine with that "only the winner get a slot, others get packs" format... I've lost in more than a dozen top 8 at competitive level (GP/MOCS/PTQ) for few wins, so I know how it feels when you're close, but come back home without the plane ticket... But that's what a competitive card game is all about, in the end there has to be a winner and a looser.
    But... I would love some points to be given on PVP tournaments (including IQs) to have something like a player of the year race, with a big final tournament. Now that would reward consistency and good finishes even for those who did not manage to get a single slot... And it would also reward (and highly "incentivised" people to play scheduled PVP) .
    => Hex is a bit too young to do something on a whole year, but a race that lasts 3 or 4 months (so 4 or 3 per year) would definitely be a huge boost to PVP attendance. I'm looking for something with a (daily updated) leaderboard on the main website, so that people get to check it every so often. And then the topX of the leaderboard will qualify for a tournament that would take place online with huge prizes.
    => It does not have to be as huge as the Invitational like tournaments (Pro tour etc I was talking previously) but still quite high to be a real incentive.

    7) New constructed formats :
    It does sound quite easy to me too to create new constructed formats with different restrictions... After all it's all a ban list question. Something like what has been called "rock league" could definitely be implemented as an official format here with constructed scheduled tournaments... As well as plenty of others.
    While this might be good overall, we still need way more players if we introduce new formats to be played, otherwise the tournaments will only fire for a certain time before they ended up being left aside (especially if the points with leaderboard system I'm talking about is not implemented)

    => The more I talk about it, the more I feel that this is the most needed thing the game is lacking... Gaining points while playing PVP (4 points for 4-0, 1 point for 3-1, draft win, and 5 wins in gauntlet) with a leaderboard and a tournament at the end with sweet (high) prizes for the highests ranked people, THAT would be an incentive to play the game as much as people can... And do that extra event every now and then.

    PS : I disagree with it being too hard to get IQ tickets, I end up with more than 40 extras, and I've only played the second half of the events... So people that want to devote time to prepare for IQs will have the tickets anyways.
    Last edited by Wuggalix; 02-27-2016 at 02:55 AM.

  7. #17
    The Transcended
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    A leaderboard that is based on earning points in the existing PvP options would be perfect and shouldn't be hard to implement. This would be much better than the ladder systems in other games, IMO.

  8. #18
    I don't like exaggerations of "PvP is dead" and all that. I fully agree that it the numbers of players are not that great at all, but it isn't dead. It doesn't quite look like it's going to die at the moment either. Weekend tournaments are getting about ~130 players or so regularly. Wish it was a lot more, but it is what it is. Check out the link below listing tournament numbers and winners (maintained by Zubrin).

  9. #19
    I don't want to be too harsh on those weekly tournaments, I know that some people have put time and money in there, and it can only be an upside for the game... But.

    ... But they are free, and that's the main (if not the only one) reason the attendance is so high... Would people pay even 500p to play with their (slightly modified) campaign deck in a PVP tournament ? No, but they do here, as it does not cost them anything.
    As I said previously, that's a good thing as it offers those guys the possibility to softly put themselves into PVP... But that should not be considered a living PVP scene, not even mentioning competitive PVP.

    PVP is dead because the players are not willing to play it. They indeed still do so once or twice a week, but "because it's free and they might ended up getting some prizes if they are lucky"... That, is not what I would call a burning desire to play PVP.


    Regarding the Swiss VS Single Elimination for the weekly tournaments :

    - for competitive players : Swiss is better as it rewards consistency and good preparation... You're only out if you loose twice, which is fair... In a single elimination event on the other hand, you can face a random deck that beat nothing but your deck (let's say 90% win rate against your deck and 10% versus every other deck) and boom you're out. And that is certainly not a good feeling for the competitive player.

    - for casual players : Swiss is better as it allow them to play as many rounds as they want. If they want to try their new fun brew, the weekly tournament would be the best place for it as it does not cost them anything and they can face different opponents (with their number of points every round pretty much)... On the other hand, if it's single elimination, then they might very well face Johnny and his 30k plat awesome deck, and they got crushed round 1 without being able to play any of the sweet interactions they wanted to... And boom they're out... So once again, not a good feeling.... While if it would have been swiss, then the casual players might loose round 1, then round 2 (damn unlucky today), but they would have soon faced other less challenging opponents, and would have been more likely to play the cool things they wanted to play by the end of the event...


    To finish, I'll come back a little bit on the PVP scene.

    I have the feeling that people are starving here. They badly want to play Hex, but they don't have anything to play with, so they ended up eating everything that they can voraciously... Honestly am I the only one with that feeling ? Like "OMG OMG draft hype"... Seriously ? A draft should need no hype, a draft should fire every 5 minutes (even less)... And if I want to play a gauntlet game I have to ask on the chat if (by any chance) there is someone willing to play... When we think about it, it's a bit like begging for an opponent to feed you.

    The only makeshift of exciting tournament that there is is the weekly tournament, so everybody appraise it... But it's not because that's the only option (that fire), that we have to be fine with it.

    That's basically the whole point of this threads, I am willing to make things change, because for me (and a lot of other players - current and future players I mean) that is definitely not sufficient.

    => I can not emphasis enough how much I think that the game is great and has a lot of potential, but it's a shame that it is not seeking more popularity, and well, to be the one thing everybody talk about when it comes to TCG.

    There is another game that everybody know that has screwed up badly their competitive play in the last couple years, and there are a lot of "unhappy" players that would be happy to make the transition to something else... But they won't switch to something that is merely alive and have no esport/competitive scene.

    Dream bigger, then make those dreams come true (in a near future).

  10. #20
    this is all valid but still...the most important thing is promoting and bringing new people into the game..
    short update on that front: I contacted (which is easily the single biggest gaming site for german speaking audiences) and they said that they already are in the process of doing a review for hex. Which came a bit unexpected but it is realy good news. We just need more...
    Last edited by Metronomy; 02-29-2016 at 06:57 AM.

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