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Thread: Which ranking system for Hex ?

  1. #21
    I don't like systems that do not award points for each round you win in a tournament. I don't mind there being a bonus for winning a tournament but I feel each win you get should award points.

    This is definitely a bit selfish I admit as I don't usually win tournaments but I do usually get some round wins. If you only got points for winning I would not be motivated to play any more than I usually do (1 free draft per week) as I do not expect I will be able to earn much in the way of points. If I can earn at least a small amount of points each round I win they I would be very motivated to keep trying because I would usually get at least a few points each draft.
    Last edited by sukebe; 03-07-2016 at 03:25 PM. Reason: added mind to first line

  2. #22
    constructed/draft/sealed are not just the competitive part of the game - they are almost the entire multiplayer game. they shouldn't be automatically ranked or else it will be impossible to sometimes play for fun and sometimes play for ranking

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Biz View Post
    constructed/draft/sealed are not just the competitive part of the game - they are almost the entire multiplayer game. they shouldn't be automatically ranked or else it will be impossible to sometimes play for fun and sometimes play for ranking
    I feel they should be counted/ranked because they are "almost the entire multiplayer game". If you want to play for fun, find a friend and play with them or, if possible, challenge someone in the proving grounds (as challenges will almost certainly count for nothing to avoid fraud).

    Or as I keep saying (and it keeps getting ignored) if you absolutely have to have a tournament that doesn't count (I say we need no such, just to be clear) then argue to exclude swiss constructed/draft. Competitive queues should be counted as....competitive ranked events.

  4. #24
    For casual play, in constructed you could alway play head to head game or game against friend or random players.
    In limited, swiss draft could not be part of ranking only competitive draft
    In fact if point would be earned for each game wan, swiss draft should not be included for ranking : nobody would play competitive draft anymore
    Last edited by Gregangel; 03-07-2016 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sukebe View Post
    I don't like systems that do not award points for each round you win in a tournament. I don't there being a bonus for winning a tournament but I feel each win you get should award points.
    Agree, so a mix of my proposal and his would be a satisfying system

  6. #26
    The system that I am proposing to implement (which is not mine btw) is already slightly weighted on the grind side (as opposed to the skill side). If we give points for each match win rather than event performances, it would be even more weighted on the grind side, which I don't think is necessary.

    I agree that we don't need any tournaments that "doesn't count"... Actually if a given tournament doesn't count it will be left aside (except if it's free, because there will always be a lot of people that love free stuff/events).

    I would not mind if the casual drafts are not awarding points, but I don't really see the upside for a tournament not to give points.
    Basically, in this system, if you really care about the race you might do a decent amount of tournaments with a competitive deck and state of mind... BUT, if sometimes you feel like relaxing or having fun with a new brew and new ideas, you can just jump in a tournament as you would normally do, and if you're doing poorly whatever, but if you ended up 3-1, or even 4-0 you're getting some points as a bonus, so that's cool, because that was not your goal in the first place.

    That's really how I think people should see the game in the future... If you want to be full competitive, you can just chain events with the deck you think is the best at the moment, but if you want to try a new shiny list that looks too cool not to be tried, you can just do it, and you will get your fun almost for sure, but who know you might even get some points as well at the end of the day.

    In the end, what matters is that you are rewarded for playing the game.


    Basically if you're choosing to enter a tournament with that fun brew, you know that your chances of winning it are less than if you're entering with your meta deck, but it might be refreshing... And sometimes it will pay.
    It's like doing the frost arena with anything that is not Slaughtergear/MonoRubyOrc/DreamDeck... You know you would be more efficient, and get more gold/plat with one of those decks, but sometimes, just building another deck that is cool, and doing the arena with it is just what you need... It's slower but less boring than a 500th game with a brutal commander, and it still get you some gold at the end of the day.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuggalix View Post
    The system that I am proposing to implement (which is not mine btw) is already slightly weighted on the grind side (as opposed to the skill side). If we give points for each match win rather than event performances, it would be even more weighted on the grind side, which I don't think is necessary.

    I agree that we don't need any tournaments that "doesn't count"... Actually if a given tournament doesn't count it will be left aside (except if it's free, because there will always be a lot of people that love free stuff/events).

    I would not mind if the casual drafts are not awarding points, but I don't really see the upside for a tournament not to give points.
    Basically, in this system, if you really care about the race you might do a decent amount of tournaments with a competitive deck and state of mind... BUT, if sometimes you feel like relaxing or having fun with a new brew and new ideas, you can just jump in a tournament as you would normally do, and if you're doing poorly whatever, but if you ended up 3-1, or even 4-0 you're getting some points as a bonus, so that's cool, because that was not your goal in the first place.

    That's really how I think people should see the game in the future... If you want to be full competitive, you can just chain events with the deck you think is the best at the moment, but if you want to try a new shiny list that looks too cool not to be tried, you can just do it, and you will get your fun almost for sure, but who know you might even get some points as well at the end of the day.

    In the end, what matters is that you are rewarded for playing the game.


    Basically if you're choosing to enter a tournament with that fun brew, you know that your chances of winning it are less than if you're entering with your meta deck, but it might be refreshing... And sometimes it will pay.
    It's like doing the frost arena with anything that is not Slaughtergear/MonoRubyOrc/DreamDeck... You know you would be more efficient, and get more gold/plat with one of those decks, but sometimes, just building another deck that is cool, and doing the arena with it is just what you need... It's slower but less boring than a 500th game with a brutal commander, and it still get you some gold at the end of the day.
    this is a key reason I do not like your system :-) I believe every game win should be counted and that points should be weighted by how many points you have compared to how many points your opponent has. Maybe it is because i played the game for over 20 years but I have always liked how mtg gave points out for tournaments. That includes having certain tournaments give (and take if you do poorly) more or less depending on what level of tournament it was. This made it so that while a pro player could lose some points if they lost in a friday night magic event it would not be so much that they would choose not to play it.

    Your system is very grindy and while that works for many people (myself included usually) that is a very hated way to do things and would upset a lot of people.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterN64 View Post
    Increasing play activity should not be the goal of a ranking system. It is there to gauge the skill of people at the top of their game playing against people at the top of theirs. Making literally every form of competition a sort of measuring stick just means if you want a good record you can never goof off and let loose. There are times and places for detailed player rankings and stats. That place is not what is basically the equivalent of a pick up basketball game at the local YMCA. Sure you take it seriously in general but sometimes you just want to throw it all to the wind and just try to sink as many 3 pointers as you can for the hell of it and thats fine. Just dont record it.

    I see your point and its an extremely valid one but it just cant be applied to the entire game. Trying to apply a strict ranking to the random queues would be like ranking the frost ring arena. If you want a good winrate you cant run that silly deck full of nothing but transmogs and pippits. It would actively hurt the game for the people that care about rankings.

    And im not a person that cares about personal rankings.
    and this is the kind of player that ruins it for everybody.

    right now theres no rewards for a system. if there becomes a reward you can still goof off, you just wont get the rewards. you wont LOSE anything that you didnt already have.

  9. #29
    What has been used for like 15 years in MTG was the ELO rating system.

    Sorry to say, but yes it was an incentive for pro players (or all that has a high enough ELO raking) NOT to play in FNM. With the ELO system the bigger difference there is between your points and the opponents points, the bigger the loss if you're loosing (and the lower the gain if your winning)... So in the end, everbody with a high enough number of points was not willing to play in FNM and other casual tournaments.

    To give you an example, I have seen someone dropping just before the final of a PTQ, because with this day's performance, he was sure to be qualified to the PT, but if he would ended up loosing the final, he might have lost too many points and not even being qualified "on ranking".

    That ELO system, while reflecting rather well the performances (current mostly) of a given player, is awful in the sense that it's an incentive NOT to play the game...

  10. #30
    ... and that tend to split the community

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