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Thread: Spectral changes

  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Showsni View Post
    "Awful"? Seriously!? It's still a cantripping Black Lotus but better. How is that awful? All the nerf did was change the Tiger/Squirrel from drawing a card into instead making a random Rare or Legendary that you meet the threshold requirements to play. That's going to be better in a lot of cases! And personally, I think it's a lot more fun!

    Seriously, you think that it's gone from awesome to awful simply because of the two free cards it draws you one of them will now be a random rare/legendary (including PvE rare/legendary, possibly AI only!) and one of them from your deck instead of both of them being from your deck? That's ridiculous. Do you also think Ancestral Recall is a bad card because it only draws three instead of four?
    I don't think 'awful' is hyperbole at the moment. Right now they are listed at promo (or at best legendary), meaning a 100p (50p if legendary) price floor. So basically you'll only be able to sell them for gold. Reselling the squirrels is questionable (can we convert 4 squirrels back to an acorn) for the same reason (100p or 10p floor).

    The card was billed as a revenue generator. For play, it's a great card. But cards need to have resell value to be a great card in general. It's quite definitely not at this point, or anything close to a good card due to the inability to resell it in any real fashion. There is a negative delta from the original card, and the price floors could have put us in a lesser boat in the same boat-engulfing ocean if it had never changed, but the lack of response from HexEnt has been worsening matters.

    I'm not necessarily saying the card is 'awful' myself, but I don't think stating it is so is a big exaggeration. In context of what the card was originally billed as from HexEnt in the KS, the word 'awful' can apply.

  2. #112
    Even if there is a price floor on them, I will bet that there will be consumables similar (maybe not as good) as the acorn.

    I guess what I am getting at is the acorn is still the most powerful card in the game, it just wont be a huge revenue generating card and I am ok with that.
    Last edited by plaguedealer; 04-11-2016 at 09:15 AM.

  3. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Khazrakh View Post
    The lack of any communication about the Oak is what's really grinding my gear.
    I'm basically trying to not think about the whole issue because I can't change it and I love the game way too much, but I'm still REALLY salty about how the whole issue was (and is!) handled.
    I agree. I won't beat that horse for the umpteenth time directly, but I'll spur it on.

    I've been thinking about the collector tier, Lotuses aside; there were delays and a lot of talk of that tier holding value with the AA cards they were going to give out. I remember when the first two were finally announced, some people balked at the picks and said the tier was going to be worthless.

    But CZE was involved from the start about that issue - they talked about how the collector tier was going to be awesome (after the KS), about their picks, and how they constantly were thinking about best serving the people who had signed up. They kept to those promises obviously, and it's the best tier south of a GK.

    I just wonder, they had and still do talk about collector cards front and center, there is only, what, less than 1k of users who have the cards (could be more, but a certain % doubled up on the tier). We have probably 5k users that were sold on most or all of the higher tiers 120 and up (myself one) on the lotuses themselves and we have heard nothing about it from day one. It's really odd and quite frustrating. I remember going for a Knight tier, and just thinking about that Lotus Garden, reading on the hextcg page that the company itself was calling it a revenue generator... It's solely what started the spiral into multiple high tiers for me so it's odd that they abandon talk about that card and change it but put a lot of TLC into the collector cards even to this day.

  4. #114
    The Transcended
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showsni View Post
    "Awful"? Seriously!? It's still a cantripping Black Lotus but better. How is that awful? All the nerf did was change the Tiger/Squirrel from drawing a card into instead making a random Rare or Legendary that you meet the threshold requirements to play. That's going to be better in a lot of cases! And personally, I think it's a lot more fun!

    Seriously, you think that it's gone from awesome to awful simply because of the two free cards it draws you one of them will now be a random rare/legendary (including PvE rare/legendary, possibly AI only!) and one of them from your deck instead of both of them being from your deck? That's ridiculous. Do you also think Ancestral Recall is a bad card because it only draws three instead of four?
    Didn't they also nerf the stats? Isn't it now 2/1 instead of 3/1 on the troop?

  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoss View Post
    Didn't they also nerf the stats? Isn't it now 2/1 instead of 3/1 on the troop?
    I think the focus on the squirrel is the problem. Like showsni said it is a better black lotus that cantrips and puts a troop in your hand.

    The revenue generation should come from the acorn itself since it is the strongest card in the game even if it didnt generate a squirrel.

    I would have invested in a king tier even if the lotus didnt make a tiger. Saying a card is better then a black lotus even with a nerf is bonkers.

    Edit, a good argument could be made that the acorn is stronger then any power nine card.
    Last edited by plaguedealer; 04-11-2016 at 12:17 PM.

  6. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by fido_one View Post
    I agree. I won't beat that horse for the umpteenth time directly, but I'll spur it on.

    I've been thinking about the collector tier, Lotuses aside; there were delays and a lot of talk of that tier holding value with the AA cards they were going to give out. I remember when the first two were finally announced, some people balked at the picks and said the tier was going to be worthless.

    But CZE was involved from the start about that issue - they talked about how the collector tier was going to be awesome (after the KS), about their picks, and how they constantly were thinking about best serving the people who had signed up. They kept to those promises obviously, and it's the best tier south of a GK.

    I just wonder, they had and still do talk about collector cards front and center, there is only, what, less than 1k of users who have the cards (could be more, but a certain % doubled up on the tier). We have probably 5k users that were sold on most or all of the higher tiers 120 and up (myself one) on the lotuses themselves and we have heard nothing about it from day one. It's really odd and quite frustrating. I remember going for a Knight tier, and just thinking about that Lotus Garden, reading on the hextcg page that the company itself was calling it a revenue generator... It's solely what started the spiral into multiple high tiers for me so it's odd that they abandon talk about that card and change it but put a lot of TLC into the collector cards even to this day.
    Very much this! I'll go even further to say all $250 tiers got extra value and general TLC, while $120 below got "exactly what you paid for, stop bitching" also, they nerfed what you paid for at $120, won't give any explanation (as of yet) why, but who cares since $250+ already got extra value.

  7. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by plaguedealer View Post
    I think the focus on the squirrel is the problem. Like showsni said it is a better black lotus that cantrips and puts a troop in your hand.

    The revenue generation should come from the acorn itself since it is the strongest card in the game even if it didnt generate a squirrel.

    I would have invested in a king tier even if the lotus didnt make a tiger. Saying a card is better then a black lotus even with a nerf is bonkers.

    Edit, a good argument could be made that the acorn is stronger then any power nine card.
    I think the best argument is that the acorn is a 'blacker lotus'; you don't hear that card talked about other than the gag it was supposed to be. The acorn is destroyed and is not a PvP card so it doesn't get close to the Power Nine. As someone else pointed out, why spend 50 or 100p on a card that will at best save you in a single battle netting you 3 to 7p max in gold? What if you're stuck with that generated card for the rest of the dungeon, and it uses a mechanic that many don't like and that many hate?

    The value is in the generated card. If the generated card sells for 1p, you can get value of single-use acorn pop in a battle + the 1p card as a result. If the generated card sells for as much as 10p, something I think the tiger would have been able to do, you could get value of acorn + 10p card as a result. The focus on the Squirrel is completely relevant, and they changed the tiger from something that would fit in any deck to something that fits only in Johnny decks. So it's a big change that effects resell value as a whole of both the acorn and the squirrel.

    We still don't know if they removed the 4 x Squirrel = a new acorn mechanic either.

  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by fido_one View Post
    I think the best argument is that the acorn is a 'blacker lotus'; you don't hear that card talked about other than the gag it was supposed to be. The acorn is destroyed and is not a PvP card so it doesn't get close to the Power Nine. As someone else pointed out, why spend 50 or 100p on a card that will at best save you in a single battle netting you 3 to 7p max in gold? What if you're stuck with that generated card for the rest of the dungeon, and it uses a mechanic that many don't like and that many hate?

    The value is in the generated card. If the generated card sells for 1p, you can get value of single-use acorn pop in a battle + the 1p card as a result. If the generated card sells for as much as 10p, something I think the tiger would have been able to do, you could get value of acorn + 10p card as a result. The focus on the Squirrel is completely relevant, and they changed the tiger from something that would fit in any deck to something that fits only in Johnny decks. So it's a big change that effects resell value as a whole of both the acorn and the squirrel.

    We still don't know if they removed the 4 x Squirrel = a new acorn mechanic either.
    When I bought extra gardens/oaks from friends I was thinking about the lotus not the tiger. I find it hard to believe that the value was in the tiger and not the lotus.

    There is no question (in my mind) that the acorn is stronger then any power nine card. The fact that it is destroyed should make no difference to the people that have oaks (you can make more in limited quantity).

    The fact that you cant make acorns from squirrels should actually increase the value of acorns. Lets face it even if the tiger was still around, why buy a 100 plat acorn if the reward you are getting in pve is low.

    Even if the tiger sold for 10 plat it was for two reasons 1. It could combine into a lotus, we cant do this so the value of acorns goes up 2. The tiger is a playable card on its own, how many tigers were you expecting to sell for that sole reason?
    Last edited by plaguedealer; 04-11-2016 at 01:04 PM.

  9. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by plaguedealer View Post
    When I bought extra gardens/oaks from friends I was thinking about the lotus not the tiger. I find it hard to believe that the value was in the tiger and not the lotus.

    There is no question (in my mind) that the acorn is stronger then any power nine card. The fact that it is destroyed should make no difference to the people that have oaks (you can make more in limited quantity).
    I don't know how you get there considering the more apt comparison is the blacker lotus and you can't use the acorn in PvP. The amount of cards that beat the snot out of the Power Nine when you add PvE into the mix is crazy. The acorn is one of many, and honestly, lower than most of them on the list.

    I am one of the many people that bought Gardens to resell them first and use them second. I didn't want to slam thousands of dollars into this game like MTG and wanted a revenue generating ability that wasn't the pro-player tier. It was sold that way, so it's not delusional to think that way. I think a lot of your arguments hold when you think of generating and using them by yourself but the card never really was billed that way. I simply wouldn't have gotten the tiers that I did if I just wanted to use the gardens by myself. I wanted to get another 'free' booster every x amount of days, x being however many days selling lotuses would net me 200 plat.

    To tamper my argument here, as I said before, I got amazing values from all the tiers, so I'm not complaining that the tiers have been rendered useless. I just thought that a lot of the value of said tiers would come from this card, so I've been infatuated with it. CZE designed it so it would be the ultimate card that people drooled over. Things change, but I wish we weren't fumbling around in the dark as much as we are about those changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by plaguedealer View Post
    The fact that you cant make acorns from squirrels should actually increase the value of acorns. Lets face it even if the tiger was still around, why buy a 100 plat acorn if the reward you are getting in pve is low.
    I'm not trying to being contrary here: has that been noted somewhere? Has there been a confirmation that the reversion from squirrels back to oaks is no longer a mechanic? If so, I'd be pretty darn salty of that change without any commentary from CZE on it. Again, what charges me the most is that the changes were delivered in an article that said 'we won't discuss this' (we had to reason out they wouldn't discuss only the legal part of it, not the actual changes) <- we've been fumbling around on the debate ever since and it would be a heck of a lot more interesting and/or relevant if we had some info on what HexEnt wants the changed card to be and how it will function.

    EDIT: and to temper that last complaint about info, I don't expect it now now , work on set 4 and Steam first. I do think more info on it could have been delivered sometime in the last four months, however.
    Last edited by fido_one; 04-11-2016 at 01:10 PM.

  10. #120
    The lack of squirrel combination was talked about by other forum posters, obviously I have no concrete info. I am interested what card do you think is stronger then acorn?

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