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Thread: Spectral changes

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Voormas View Post
    I figured it was so you couldn't target with a Doppelgadget and then transform that

    Either way I really loved the original Lotus / Tiger / Equipment (and so did everyone that backed at King and up no-doubt), I still feel like after the nerfs it's pretty powerful (though not an auto-include), I look forward to getting them out to players
    I remember thinking back in the day how Doppelgadget would deal with the Lotus, so good point there.

    Not to be contrary, but why wouldn't it be an auto-include? It's a zero cost can-trip at the very least to thin out your deck... and the untargetable tag will prevent a bit of milling... I don't see how a deck wouldn't benefit from one.

    Of course there is another nerf in the card when we compare it to the KS, and that's because it is legendary, meaning we won't be able to use four of them until our characters reach level ??? with adventure zone ???. That will effect market prices on acorns for a bit, there simply won't be enough demand for them beyond Frost Ring.
    Last edited by fido_one; 04-08-2016 at 05:01 AM.

  2. #42
    We really need that article about the Lotus changes. I might be wrong as I don't know what the overall PvE end game plan is and where these are likely to be used (and more importantly, how often) but I feel like there's two core problems with how the Oak/Acorn/Squirrel is designed right now.

    1) The free cantrip means that every single PvE deck will now include a playset of Acorn - essentially reducing deckbuilding to 56 cards. With an assumption of 24 shards, that is 4/36 or 11% of deckbuilding gone.

    2) The generated Squirrel is not a desired card and hence disincentivizes players from cracking their Acorn during Dungeons (a free cantrip is much more desired over a 3/1 troop for 3 for the remainder of the dungeon. (At the least the old Tiger had a cantrip attached).

    So this means that not only does PvE deckbuilding variety take a hit, but Spectral Oak owners might not even benefit as most players will be happy including playset of Acorns but in most cases not even cracking them (resulting in much more Acorns generated per day than there is consumption of it).

    I feel like the free cantrip aspect needs to be changed (maybe add a 1 cost to that part) not only to prevent this being an auto-4 in every deck but also because as it stands people much rather have it over a 3/1 for 3 (hence not consuming it until dungeon boss, and even then they might not draw the Acorn or even need it).

    Also I don't know why the generated card is not something a bit more universally desirable. Both control and aggro decks don't have much use for a 3/1 for 3. Something like a 1 cost action that creates a random rare/legendary with no threshold and has cost -2 or -3 seems like it would have been a more fun and desired card while not being overly powerful (due to its inconsistency).

    Maybe we'll be spending most of our time in raids and this Acorn is mostly designed to be used there so perhaps my second concern isn't that important. But is there anything that would make the first concern (free cantrip) acceptable other than just not wanting to ruin the original card too much and hence create bad will with KS backers? The thing is that aspect of the card might actually be worse for Oak owners (due to less nut busting) so isn't there some conflict of interest here?

    Interested to hear what others think.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by bootlace View Post
    We really need that article about the Lotus changes. I might be wrong as I don't know what the overall PvE end game plan is and where these are likely to be used (and more importantly, how often) but I feel like there's two core problems with how the Oak/Acorn/Squirrel is designed right now.

    1) The free cantrip means that every single PvE deck will now include a playset of Acorn - essentially reducing deckbuilding to 56 cards. With an assumption of 24 shards, that is 4/36 or 11% of deckbuilding gone.

    2) The generated Squirrel is not a desired card and hence disincentivizes players from cracking their Acorn during Dungeons (a free cantrip is much more desired over a 3/1 troop for 3 for the remainder of the dungeon. (At the least the old Tiger had a cantrip attached).

    So this means that not only does PvE deckbuilding variety take a hit, but Spectral Oak owners might not even benefit as most players will be happy including playset of Acorns but in most cases not even cracking them (resulting in much more Acorns generated per day than there is consumption of it).

    I feel like the free cantrip aspect needs to be changed (maybe add a 1 cost to that part) not only to prevent this being an auto-4 in every deck but also because as it stands people much rather have it over a 3/1 for 3 (hence not consuming it until dungeon boss, and even then they might not draw the Acorn or even need it).

    Also I don't know why the generated card is not something a bit more universally desirable. Both control and aggro decks don't have much use for a 3/1 for 3. Something like a 1 cost action that creates a random rare/legendary with no threshold and has cost -2 or -3 seems like it would have been a more fun and desired card while not being overly powerful (due to its inconsistency).

    Maybe we'll be spending most of our time in raids and this Acorn is mostly designed to be used there so perhaps my second concern isn't that important. But is there anything that would make the first concern (free cantrip) acceptable other than just not wanting to ruin the original card too much and hence create bad will with KS backers? The thing is that aspect of the card might actually be worse for Oak owners (due to less nut busting) so isn't there some conflict of interest here?

    Interested to hear what others think.
    I agree that a 3/1 cost for 3 is not desirable. But having a card that can't be removed from the board or your hand, and having the ability to throw out a 3/1 with another troop generated is definately something I want. Not as much as another can-trip like before, but not negative.

    I think the armor gives plenty of incentive to pop the acorn, but the majority of people buying the acorns on the AH won't have that armor, so it defeats the incentive and you're back to people not using the acorns and scuttling the value of them.

    We'll have to see how it works in play; I'm a casual player, but I think we can all agree that there have been plenty of cards we thought would hold value in one regard and after using them their real value is revealed over time. I am straight up salty that we haven't had an article yet on the matter, however.

  4. #44
    I'm sure they will confirm soon.
    Last edited by Antfunk; 04-08-2016 at 09:24 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenavire View Post
    I am usually the last person to make this kind of argument bofedy, but buying King was a significant cost to me and I bought it with the understanding that I would slowly pay off the cost by selling excess Lotuses. Now the Gardens etc have been changed, which potentially hurts the value, and you are telling me that the exclusive perk that made king worth the cost increase over other tiers is now potentially taking another hit to value?

    The lower tiers explicitly didn't get Gardens/Oaks, and their value was fine for the cost. King was a fairly hefty cost, and had one specific perk. Higher than King had much better perks. This isn't like when the drafts for a year got extended, because that only affected those tiers. This is something that very clearly would affect the value of a tier that has already been payed for, in a very negative way, in order to give other tiers (that were already amazing) a significant increase in value.

    Can you not see why that is very, very wrong? It's very similar to saying that Dungeon Crawler, Pro, Guild Leader and Raid Leader should all get 1x of every collector AA for life. And you better believe people would be upset about that.
    Honestly, I am a bit disappointed to see someone on these forums complain in such a way about the prospect of Hex Ent giving out something extra to people that supported the game and also in turn allowing the gaming community as a whole to have more of a chance of being able to play with said cards. You backed what you backed and knew what you were getting. You wouldn't be complaining if your tier had extras and the ones below didn't.

    #sigh.

  6. #46
    It's most likely a typo, just like the typo saying tiers are getting 3x of the KS PVE cards when they only got 2x.

  7. #47
    The issue isnt complaining about people getting free stuff but instead getting stuff that the other tiers paid money to get for free. As far as i know they have not changed any of the kickstarter tiers after the end of the campaign except to extend the free drafts for the other $250 tiers to make up for not having their benefits ingame yet. That and the whole thing was billed as a way to earn resources ingame. More oaks in play means more supply which means less profits. It would be a terrible idea for them to give them out like that.
    In Game Name: Halko

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by katkillad View Post
    It's most likely a typo, just like the typo saying tiers are getting 3x of the KS PVE cards when they only got 2x.
    Oh I didn't see that, it's obviously a copy-paste overlook as editing that page and 250 tier structure started with the collector tier.

    On one hand, if HexEnt is reading this, I don't know why someone just doesn't fix it, on the other, they have far, far, far more important things to do than to drop whatever it is they are doing on a Friday and counter what I think is a ridiculous assumption that they gave everyone Collector tier benefits (save for collector cards) without saying anything. It's one of our more ridiculous tangents on these forums I think.
    Last edited by fido_one; 04-08-2016 at 10:00 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by fido_one View Post
    Oh I didn't see that, it's obviously a copy-paste overlook as editing that page and 250 tier structure started with the collector tier.

    On one hand, if HexEnt is reading this, I don't know why someone just doesn't fix it, on the other, they have far, far, far more important things to do than to drop whatever it is they are doing on a Friday and counter what I think is a ridiculous assumption that they gave everyone Collector tier benefits (save for collector cards) without saying anything. It's one of our more ridiculous tangents on these forums I think.
    Yes they are probably preparing patch for set 4 surprise, (wishful thinking )!

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Antfunk View Post
    Yes they are probably preparing patch for set 4 surprise, (wishful thinking )!
    My gut is telling me tonight will either be filler or steam launch date. Finding out the set 4 date seems possible but less likely than the steam date (and we would probably get the steam date alongside the set 4 date, since steam seems likely to come first.)

    Dunno if I should get hyped for the update or not.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
    http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...erlinsmall.png

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