Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 54

Thread: Rules Updates For Primal Dawn regarding Copies

  1. #1

    Rules Updates For Primal Dawn regarding Copies

    Hey all, I’m Corey Burkhart, the rules guy here at HEX. Today, I want to give you some insights to some rules we’re changing with the release of Primal Dawn that we think are going to bring great quality of life upgrades to copies.

    With Armies of Myth, we released seven cards that could create copies of another card or transform into another card. The reactions to copies were mostly positive. One of the awesome things in a digital space is being able to modify your cards you’re playing with and make them your own, and copies were the newest and coolest piece of that player customization.

    However, we missed a little bit with copies. There were bugs with it when we released it, like some copy cards functioning completely differently than other copy cards. With this change we sought to clear out those couple of bugs that existed with Armies of Myth and most importantly make the rules of copies more in line with what people anticipated a copy being. Therefore, here are the new rules for copies:

    Copies are very similar to replicas in the way they function with a few key distinctions. The rules for copies are as follows:

    • Copies get all modifiers that the copied card had, with the same duration.


      • Example: I have a Frigid Buffalo (Troop – Beast, 2ATK/3DEF) and I play Smoke Signals (Quick Action; Ready each troop you control. They get +DEF this turn). If I then create a copy of the 2ATK/4DEF Frigid Buffalo, I will get a 2ATK/4DEF Frigid Buffalo. At the end of the turn, the +1DEF modifier will be removed from both Frigid Buffalos.



    • Powers that are indefinite modifiers are not copied over in the creation/transformation of copies.


      • Example: You control a Command Tower, (Artifact – Troops you control have +1ATK/+0DEF), and a Duplicitous Duke (Troop Necrotic Warlock 2ATK/2DEF -- Shift [(1)]: At the start of your combat phase, this gets "Must attack." Create a copy of this and put it into play. It gets Speed and "When combat ends, void this.") The Duke is a 3ATK/2DEF when in play, and the copy is also a 3ATK/2DEF, no longer a 4ATK/2DEF with the Command Tower’s Indefinite modifier being both copied over and then applying to the Duplicitous Duke.


    • Copies are always created or transformed into the copied target (current state).

    • Like replicas, copies of socketable cards will be socketed with the same gems as the original.

    • Copied cards have the attributes (ATK, DEF, cost, shard, threshold, type, traits, uniqueness flag) and powers as the card they copied. In the case of uniqueness violations, the card that has been in play the longest will be put into the crypt.

    • 1-SHOT powers are not restored to the copy if the original card has used its power.

    • If the copy has targets, you may choose new targets for the copy.

    • Cards that are copied, are independent from their source once they’re created or transformed. There are then treated as their own card.


      • Example: I play Taint (Quick Action; Target troop gets -1ATK/-1DEF.) on the original Frigid Buffalo from the previous example that is a 2ATK/4DEF. The original Frigid Buffalo will become a 1ATK/3DEF, but the copy is its own card and will not also get that -1ATK/-1DEF from Taint.



    The first two rules are the rules that have been updated and changed from the previous copies that people have come to know. The first rule, updates the duration with which effects are copied on a card. Here’s an additional example:

    I Control a Battle Hopper (0ATK/1DEF) troop. I play Wild Growth (Target troop gets +3ATK/+3DEF) targeting the Battle Hopper, so that it is now a 3ATK/4DEF. That power from the Wild Growth card now has an effect on Battle Hopper giving it +3ATK/+3DEF for the turn.





    With old copies, if you created a Copy of your Battle Hopper, you would always have a 3ATK/4DEF Battle Hopper. With the updated rules, you have a 3ATK/4DEF, that at the end of the turn loses its +3ATK/+3DEF for the turn and goes back to being the normal 0ATK/1DEF Battle Hopper we know and love.

    The reason for this change is that we wanted copies to be more of a “snapshot” of what your troop was. Players were consistently confused why troops were the sizes they were at the end of the duration of effects on their troops. We think this is the more quality of life update the copies.

    The second rule being updated is the change to how copies work with indefinite modifiers. An indefinite modifier is any power is a fancy way to say a power that we don’t specify for how long it will last. These are the kinds of powers that cannot be removed by revert powers. Some examples of these are High Tomb Lord (“This has +1ATK/+1DEF for each card in all crypts.”) and Command Tower (“Troops you control have +1ATK/+0DEF.”).

    This change had many more bugs infested in it that were not just related to the ATK and DEF of a troop, but in terms of other things going on with the card. Take for example our High Tomb Lord and how it played when it was copied. The first bug fixed is that if your High Tomb Lord was in play as a 1ATK/1DEF (1 cards in your crypt), a copy would then be a 1ATK/1DEF (1 cards in your crypt and +1ATK/+1DEF from the old High Tomb Lord). This was confusing, no doubt about it. This has been cleaned up such that the copy is the same as the one previously in play, a 1ATK/1DEF.

    The second bug that has been cleaned up from this was how copied cards interacted when they were transformed. Again, we have a High Tomb Lord that is on top of our deck as a 0ATK/0DEF because his power is functioning because it’s not in play just yet. We play Titania’s Majesty and choose to create a copy of that High Tomb Lord (with 1 card in our crypt). We’re left with a 1ATK/1DEF High Tomb Lord in play. Then, if we transform that High Tomb Lord with Angelic Ascension, the results left us with the following image:





    This is a really bad bug, and I’m really happy to say that this has been fixed with our Primal Dawn patch. We will no longer see card type, subtypes, cost, ATK, and DEF all carried through a transformation of a copied card. And instead you’ll end up with your normal Angel troop that’s a 5 cost 4ATK/4DEF Avatar troop.

    We hope these updates will make copies much more intuitive and much more fun to play with. We want to assure you, in doing this we’re not changing your PvP cards, we’re focusing here on fixing bugs with copies and making sure they function the best they possibly can within the rules and we’re confident that these updates will make all copies cards much better for HEX.

    Please feel free to ask questions here, I'll try and address them as they come up this afternoon and into this weekend.

    ~Corey
    Last edited by Magician; 04-11-2016 at 11:46 AM. Reason: 1-Shot image was removed in posting, added it in line.

  2. #2
    Thanks for the article Corey! Great to find this out officially and that the wonkiness has been cleared up on copies.

  3. #3
    Course, sorry for the late release! Was planning on having this initially be an article on the main page, but ended up slotting it in here.

    Of note, these changes will also be listed in the Primal Dawn FAQ when that is released on the day that Primal Dawn cards go into the client!

  4. #4
    Any word on copies of escalation cards on the chain going to crypt instead of going into the deck? Seems counter intuitive.

  5. #5
    So titanias majesty into a heart of the wrathwood with 6 permanent resources will make the troop 6/6 now? or 12/12? because the card doesnt say anything about until end of turn.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Magician View Post
    Course, sorry for the late release! Was planning on having this initially be an article on the main page, but ended up slotting it in here.

    Of note, these changes will also be listed in the Primal Dawn FAQ when that is released on the day that Primal Dawn cards go into the client!
    I like that this is posted in the forums; the front page can get a bit overwhelming, and posting it here makes it a lot more prone for us to directly discuss the ramifications of such changes.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Salverus View Post
    So titanias majesty into a heart of the wrathwood with 6 permanent resources will make the troop 6/6 now? or 12/12? because the card doesnt say anything about until end of turn.
    I think that counts as an "indefinite modifier," so the copy would be a 6/6.

    I like the changes, much more intuitive and logical. Not quite sure it's accurate to say that you're not changing PvP cards though, given the previous article on the rules for copies.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazelbain View Post
    Any word on copies of escalation cards on the chain going to crypt instead of going into the deck? Seems counter intuitive.
    Hmm, I'll have QA look into this again for me. Are you talking about a copied Escalation card in the general sense or if you copied it while it was on the chain (Mostly via Chimes of the Zodiac). Either way, these should go to the deck as part of resolution. Thus, unless the target was removed, or the card is interrupted, the Escalation card should end up in your deck when they finish (Because all of them say Put this into your deck).

    Quote Originally Posted by Salverus View Post
    So titanias majesty into a heart of the wrathwood with 6 permanent resources will make the troop 6/6 now? or 12/12? because the card doesnt say anything about until end of turn.
    Correct. The duration example I gave regarding the Wild Growth can be ignored here, because the duration not being explicitly stated implies that the modifier is permanent.

    Therefore, with our Heart of the Wrathwood here, it falls in to the second camp of what we call an indefinite modifier. Essentially, any modifier that calls out "have/has" will usually fall into this camp. "Shin'hare you control have +1ATK/+1 DEF"; "Troops you control have +1ATK."; "Cards in your hand have cost -[(1)]."; "This has +1[ATK]/+1[DEF] in all zones for each card in your crypt."; "This has +1[ATK]/+1[DEF] for each permanent resource you have."; Each of these are examples of indefinite modifiers. Usually these effect will modify many things, sometimes they'll be modifying itself at all times while in a specific zone.

    So the reason the Heart of the Wrathwood remains a 6ATK/6DEF troop and is no longer a 12ATK/12DEF troop has to do with the no longer copying of indefinite modifiers, rather than the duration we're calling out on the troop's power.


    Quote Originally Posted by fido_one View Post
    I like that this is posted in the forums; the front page can get a bit overwhelming, and posting it here makes it a lot more prone for us to directly discuss the ramifications of such changes.
    Appreciate the feedback. I'll be sure to let folks know. If more people feel this way, maybe this is the more effective way to communicate these things. I just worry putting it in the forums means our community has to dig for it a little more to find that information, and I'd rather everyone were fully informed of the situation without having to search it out if at all possible.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Magician View Post
    Hmm, I'll have QA look into this again for me. Are you talking about a copied Escalation card in the general sense or if you copied it while it was on the chain (Mostly via Chimes of the Zodiac). Either way, these should go to the deck as part of resolution. Thus, unless the target was removed, or the card is interrupted, the Escalation card should end up in your deck when they finish (Because all of them say Put this into your deck).
    Copied on the chain like with Chimes of the Zodiac and cards with Thunderfield Elder's prophecy.

  10. #10
    The new rules make infinitely more sense especially in relation to indefinite modifires, my intution says when i copy my 6/6 heart of the wildwood, i get a 6/6 (not a 12/12 like before).
    IGN : Hercone

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •