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Thread: HEX Update - More of that Polish

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by poizonous View Post
    Regardless of whatever early April means it definitely doesn't mean anything after Friday if we don't get a date announcement. Patience is one thing but at this point anyone left with patience is white knighting or should be up for sainthood
    Nobody responds well to the types of statements as I quoted above, but I can guarantee there won't be an official date announcement for Primal Dawn on Friday. What I can say is that our internal projected date for Primal Dawn won't have moved by Friday either. Clearly Steam launch is a huge piece and we'll have a better idea once we're past that. Also, not guaranteeing a date announcement immediately after Steam Launch either. As I discussed yesterday, there are many variables affecting Primal Dawn's release date, and we'll announce it when we're confident in it.
    Please tweet me @HEXWilliam for a reliable, quick response. Thank you.

  2. #92
    What bothers me is the question how you can ever potentialy release set 5 in time. Anything more than 5 months (maximum 6) for set 5 would be another disaster (and potentialy one too many). Since Set 4 was according to Cory "basically done" since 4/5 months how can Set 5 ever be released in 5 months after set 4 ?

    I understand there is a big difference between "basically done" and "done" but it just speaks not well for the future. I dont know where the issues are (although I understand that AZ1 took much time). Maybe your coding department is understaffed. Maybe you dont have the priorities right. If features are delayed (like mercs, raids, guild and whatever) thats one thing. But people can wait a little longer for those as long as there is new set content. Having 7 to 9 months between sets is a guaranteed way to lose players. Set 5 will be the true test and you may not fail on that one again. I cannot stress this enough.
    Last edited by Metronomy; 04-12-2016 at 11:52 AM.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Metronomy View Post
    What bothers me is the question how you can ever potentialy release set 5 in time. Anything more than 5 months (maximum 6) for set 5 would be another disaster (and potentialy one too many). Since Set 4 was according to Cory "basically done" since 4/5 months how can Set 5 ever be released in 5 months after set 4 ?

    I understand there is a big difference between "basically done" and "done" but it just speaks not well for the future. I dont know where the issues are (although I understand that AZ1 took much time). Maybe your coding department is understaffed. Maybe you dont have the priorities right. If features are delayed (like mercs, raids, guild and whatever) thats one thing. But people can wait a little longer for those as long as there is new set content. Having 7 to 9 months between sets is a guaranteed way to lose players. Set 5 will be the true test and you may not fail on that one again. I cannot stress this enough.
    Your repeated concerns in this thread have been, genuinely, noted. As I said earlier to the community, I'd rather show you that we did better and then discuss it than throw words at it. Actions are what matters at this point, yes?
    Please tweet me @HEXWilliam for a reliable, quick response. Thank you.

  4. #94
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    As a lot of ppl did mention, we dont care about delays, but we care about not telling us why! everything would be better with the right information
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  5. #95
    Shaq, Corey said himself 9 months is unacceptable. More of your posts leads to a May release. If 9 months is unacceptable what is 10 months? Going from early April to getting told on April 12th "internal projected date" that's disturbing and worrisome and no actions at this point aren't better than words that can be used as truth

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernz View Post
    As a lot of ppl did mention, we dont care about delays, but we care about not telling us why! everything would be better with the right information
    There are many factors, one of which I just mentioned three posts above yours-- Steam release. Other HEX devs have discussed this point as well, as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by poizonous View Post
    Shaq, Corey said himself 9 months is unacceptable. More of your posts leads to a May release. If 9 months is unacceptable what is 10 months? Going from early April to getting told on April 12th "internal projected date" that's disturbing and worrisome and no actions at this point aren't better than words that can be used as truth
    Don't read into things. That's been one of the main messages in this discussion the entire time-- it's natural to want to do it, but ultimately you're doing so with imperfect information at best and won't come to a correct answer. There is no date to announce and there's no angle of inquiry which will reveal one.

    Why is "internal projected date" worrisome? Of course we have internal dates. We don't have the luxury of being a big publisher with features long complete before announcement and then release. We serve up features as they're done, and respecting players in waiting to give them an accurate, reliable date is part of the cost. Yes, the amount of time between set releases is disappointing, and I've already outlined how we set our own traps regarding these launches. I don't know what else you're looking for, other than an official date announcement.
    Please tweet me @HEXWilliam for a reliable, quick response. Thank you.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqattaq View Post
    I think this conversation is getting oddly hung up on what "early April" means. That's why I hope players will wait for an official date. There's no confusion there.
    If the main criticism that is being thrown about by all sides in HexEnt's ability to effectively communicate, namely in the area of release windows and dates in general, I don't think it is an odd hang up at all. Rather it's the point.

    My worry is that you are reverting to Blizzard tactics, which is 'it will be done when it is done'. Blizzard says that from the start and keeps things mum. HexEnt has an established history of saying dates or time frames ('early April' hangup) and then reverting to the Blizzard 'it will be done when it is done' <- doesn't work when everyone is hyped on a time frame.

    In part of the back and forth sans communication a lot of the arguments have been amplified [on many threads] , so I worry this is getting a bit out of hand. From my biased vantage point, it seems that a lot of people just want some communication more than a specific date in mind. One of your other comments really makes it sound like steam is going to come before set 4. Since there is a thread in the general forum going back and forth on the topic, I wonder why no one from HexEnt has weighed in.

    Yes, people will gripe with the weigh in one way or another, but they'll do that with more bitterness after the fact if they've been in the dark. Ya'll are going to take a hit one way or another, one just seems like it would mitigate the damage a lot, and that's popping into a thread like that and saying 'we're leaning towards a steam release first and set 4 afterwards, I can't go into more detail than that, but that's what it is looking like at the moment...' Add more info if you can, expect some push back on that info, but again, expect it to be filled with a lot less vitriol than if you say nothing.

    The Steam launch is going to be bumpy - I don't care how many cylinders are firing over there at the moment, even top of your game there will be issues. The community will be there to help (like it or not), and that help will be improved with each bit of info we have to tear apart before hand, even if the process is painful to watch from your end. Why chance all of those new users seeing that saltiness and debating the cadence of steam/set releases on the forums right after launch? Better to have us dissect things and have anxiety attacks before you have a legion of new eyes with money behind them looking at the forums to see what things are like.

    I've added my 432534 cents at this point and will exit. Shaq, hats off for taking all the shrapnel on this issue, you are to be commended sir. I think we all greatly appreciate your input even if we disagree with some of it.
    Last edited by fido_one; 04-12-2016 at 12:37 PM.

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqattaq View Post
    Nobody responds well to the types of statements as I quoted above, but I can guarantee there won't be an official date announcement for Primal Dawn on Friday. What I can say is that our internal projected date for Primal Dawn won't have moved by Friday either. Clearly Steam launch is a huge piece and we'll have a better idea once we're past that. Also, not guaranteeing a date announcement immediately after Steam Launch either. As I discussed yesterday, there are many variables affecting Primal Dawn's release date, and we'll announce it when we're confident in it.
    So not next week and probably not the week after. So early March at best.

    The question is why not just say that? People have repeatedly said they would rather be given dates and then updates on when those dates change than just be kept in the dark and told "soon, maybe".

    You have said that you have an internal date for Primal Dawn release, why not just come out and say it and the reasons why it is that date and possible things that could change it. At least that would be seen as better communication and give people some idea what is going on.

  9. #99
    Feels like there aren't too many voices in this thread but what I'd like to say myself is something I've also been telling myself lately.

    "Don't be so reluctant to share bad news." I fall into the mindset if I don't have something good to share with people that I'd rather just keep it to myself but the issue with that is that you wind up leaving people out of the loop to come to their own conclusions. I've seen people in here say they wanna know exactly why a delay might be occurring with stuff like an exact number of bugs that are out there or what feature still needs implementation. The more specific those types of announcements might be the less they help though, it just gives people more room to pick things apart with a limited understanding of what might actually be going on.

    Largely statements have resembled "Set 4 is coming out at some point." (early x month / soon / etc) They're all vague answers, and it is totally understandable why a concrete date can't be given if there isn't a concrete date in the first place. My 2 cents is that if we can't have concrete release dates then the next best thing is to have concrete statements like "Set 4 WILL NOT be released in the next 2 weeks." or "In order for us to release set 4, first we need to do X. X will take us at least another month."

    Giving people hope for something that isn't going to occur is just squandering 'community capital' and that might not be happening majorly at any given point but if it continues incrementally it just sets the standard that people should always expect to be disappointed.

    Lastly I'd like to highlight two things that Cory has regularly stated and re-stated.
    "Lack of set releases will kill a TCG more than anything else hands down." - I feel like everyone (inside and out) knows what the stakes are right now, and not just right now but going forward for the next few sets. We all get it, this matters a lot.

    "The goal is to always have something exciting going on in Hex, something compelling that makes players want to log in an play the game each week." - I can imagine / hope that there might be some sort of steam launch or tie in event that could even help breathe some fire into the game for existing players, throwback drafts or bonus PVE rewards would both be pretty sweet. What I'm getting at though is if the team feels like there's even the possibility that there is going to be a big gap between content releases then throwing in some small stuff in the meantime would go a long long way. I get that takes some number of man hours to do and so there is a cost vs benefit to be had there. It feels like the team genuinely thought set 4 was going to be out significantly sooner but preparing for these what-if scenarios would probably go a long way for everyone involved.
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  10. #100
    I wonder if something simple might be better than something complicated?

    Let's say, for arguments sake, that the team decides together when to announce a projected date (early April being a good example.) Now, assuming this goes down well with the whole team, everyone is on board, then it probably seems like a great idea. But history has demonstrated that this is rarely the case. So what if you took a good, hard look at how you have been preparing info (including Cory being insanely charming and optimistic) and just sit on it for say, a week. You have a week buffer to discover whatever is potentially wrong, what might delay it, etc. Now, that's not to say you should delay announcements to the last minute, or push back release dates, it's more a point of taking a step back, even when things seem to be falling perfectly into place, and checking your surroundings for potential pitfalls before forging ahead.

    Now, I am not saying you aren't doing this already, or that you should follow this to the letter, but I think the sentiment should be clear - as hungry as we are for info, a single week with no info is going to hurt us less than whatever shifted expectations might do. After all, the bulk of the backlash has been A) a hit and miss timetable, and B) a hit and miss release window after it is announced. We can't fully safeguard against A), but B) is something that should be doable.


    Now, on the flipside of the coin, bad news: getting that ASAP hurts less than having things drawn out. Now I can already foresee plenty of times where waiting a few days to see if something can be fixed will be the prudent move, but I feel the minute you are sure it will have a negative impact (and a is something that matters to the public) it should probably be shared. This doesn't have to be paraded out in public like the town drunk on a bender, but as long as we as a community are aware of potential hiccups, we can temper our expectations. After all, ripping the bandaid off fast may hurt just as much, but it's much more bearable.

    I hope my musings give a little food for thought, even if most of it is just an echo of what others have already said.
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