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Thread: HEX Update - More of that Polish

  1. #111
    My Dark Souls 3 pre-order from Amazon got delayed by 1 day and you can bet I gave someone in India an earful about it. What about the people who got told the day they thought their Occulus Rift pre-orders were shipping that they were delayed for several weeks/months, do you think they just sat quietly? What is happening here is a result of recently abysmal communication and a track record of like 1 out of 10 at hitting announced dates going back years before your join date, so maybe this is something you just can't understand.

    You want to know what is childish? Being upset that people are saying things you don't like and then resorting to calling them names.
    Last edited by katkillad; 04-13-2016 at 01:39 AM.

  2. #112
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    finally, .... grab your pitchforks !
    Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer | IGN: Cernz
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  3. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregangel View Post
    Guys, seriously, we become very ridiculous by whining like little children who keep asking why why? why? Don't you think ?

    They said early april without been specific, they didn't make it because of stream integration and others dev stuff. They delivered a QoL patch to prepare the stream lauch what clearly mean no set 4 before steam lauch.

    So that's means steam next week or the week after and a set 4 one to 3 weeks after that. You really don't need to have more information than that

    Like children, your daddy or mommy will not give you the new toy because you keep asking but why, but why, but why ?


    The real issue is just delay between set which is a high risk of premature death for the game if next sets are not released with reasonnable delays. And they are aware of that.

    So back off guys
    I dont know if this was replying to my latest post but here's why I'm specifically harping about this incident:

    1) It's yet another case where HxE shoot themselves in the foot for no other reason than their, IMO, misguided belief that staying mostly quiet is the best course of action. From what it sounds like, there was opportunity to actually turn this whole incident from a negative to a positive by explaining how great it will be for the company that Steam release will happen before Set 4 and asking the playerbase to hang in there for a few more weeks because it's really something that's going to be beneficial to everyone. Sure some people will be upset as is the case with everything but the core of the people here are in it for the long haul and genuinely care about the company so they would be very supportive of this kind of upfront explanation. Anyways it's not like this fact is not going to come out, but you had an opportunity to manage/shape people's reactions of this instead of letting it linger and lead to people thinking the worst.

    2) They are in the process of hiring a new Community Manager and if there's a time to voice our thoughts/ideas/criticisms it is exactly now. In the end the Community Manager's success will be predicated based on how well WE deem he is doing, not anyone else. You have to know your audience and craft a communication strategy specifically around them. Even when we had a CM, and he seemed like a nice and well meaning person, the communication problem/strategy/approach was something that kept coming up. This tells me that a difference in approach is required.

    For example the Lotus changes: apparently some explanation around it is coming (based again on Colin and nothing super official) and I'm sure there's both a good reason why the changes happened and why you haven't made an explanation yet, but why have you not officially come out and said you're preparing that and the reason why you're waiting on it. As we speak people are angrily talking about this exact issue on the general forums upping their general displeasure and creating a bad impression for your company for new comers. Most people are more angry that you made this change without a single note about it than the change itself. "We are preparing an in-depth explanation on the change to the Mystic Squirrel. We understand this is an important card for many of you and we take this change very seriously. We are waiting on a few final technical aspects before we are comfortable releasing it. Thank you for your patience". Just that 1 minute to write that would have gone a long way.

    Anyways those are my thoughts as someone who's following the game/community pretty closely. I honestly don't care about the WHYs and the WHENs as much as I want to see HxE doing well. I would hope these words come across as constructive and not inflammatory towards anyone at HxE (in fact it's why I feel free to do it now with no CM and hence there being no feelings in the way to get hurt.)

  4. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernz View Post
    finally, .... grab your pitchforks !
    Hahaha poor Gregangel, that was the worst time to step in and gripe about griping. Everyone's hostilities have been reassigned.

    EDIT: A quick note on this, CZE created forums. For a community they intentionally wanted to be more-devoted-than-normal. They aren't idiots. If they thought the forums would be anything short of criticism Valhalla, they would have taken them down a long time ago.
    Last edited by fido_one; 04-13-2016 at 05:35 AM.

  5. #115
    My reaction target no specific posts, but a more general mood.

    I hope everybody realize your complaints exists only because Hex E decided to make game developpemen t close to the players in the first place.
    And now it's backfiring on them because when you give a hand to someone, this someone will rapidly want to grab your arm.
    So it's a bit unfair, i think.

  6. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregangel View Post
    My reaction target no specific posts, but a more general mood.

    I hope everybody realize your complaints exists only because Hex E decided to make game developpemen t close to the players in the first place.
    And now it's backfiring on them because when you give a hand to someone, this someone will rapidly want to grab your arm.
    So it's a bit unfair, i think.
    This is not some knee-jerk reaction to the latest drama that's going on - it's the culmination of my feelings on this topic over a 2.5 year period. And if you listen to what I said I don't want better communication to satisfy my curiosity but instead it's to improve the community's perception/tolerance of HxE.

    Not that it's directly related to the communication stuff but Hex Entertainment actually haven't been open about their game development in a long long while. One week before the Campaign release most of us didn't even have a solid idea of what sort of game awaited us. Still for most of the outstanding features we have no idea what they are going to be or look like or if they're still in the game (Guilds? Keeps? Crafting? Double-Backs? We don't have any idea what those are going to be like. Heck we don't even know if there's even an MMO component to the game being made).

    When we signed up to the Kickstarter/Alpha/Beta we were told we would be in there watching the sausages get made, alot of us wanted exactly that. Quickly enough we got kicked out of the factory and we've been waiting out in the cold outside the factory and only once in a blue moon does someone stick their head out (usually Colin <3) and mentions a few rumblings of what might going on inside the factory.

    I don't know how long you've been around but we lost a TON of valuable forum contributors, players, guilds, community sites, and more during this time. I don't know how much a better communication strategy would have helped keep those players in given the length/nature of the delays but it's probably not negligible. Maybe at some point the fear of having their ideas stolen or the lawsuit prevented them from being forthcomin. But at this stage when they're trying to pick-up momentum it's kind of disappointing to hear that they're going in the opposite direction of even less communication/transparency rather than embracing us and keeping us in the loop.

  7. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by bootlace View Post
    This is not some knee-jerk reaction to the latest drama that's going on - it's the culmination of my feelings on this topic over a 2.5 year period. And if you listen to what I said I don't want better communication to satisfy my curiosity but instead it's to improve the community's perception/tolerance of HxE.

    Not that it's directly related to the communication stuff but Hex Entertainment actually haven't been open about their game development in a long long while. One week before the Campaign release most of us didn't even have a solid idea of what sort of game awaited us. Still for most of the outstanding features we have no idea what they are going to be or look like or if they're still in the game (Guilds? Keeps? Crafting? Double-Backs? We don't have any idea what those are going to be like. Heck we don't even know if there's even an MMO component to the game being made).

    When we signed up to the Kickstarter/Alpha/Beta we were told we would be in there watching the sausages get made, alot of us wanted exactly that. Quickly enough we got kicked out of the factory and we've been waiting out in the cold outside the factory and only once in a blue moon does someone stick their head out (usually Colin <3) and mentions a few rumblings of what might going on inside the factory.

    I don't know how long you've been around but we lost a TON of valuable forum contributors, players, guilds, community sites, and more during this time. I don't know how much a better communication strategy would have helped keep those players in given the length/nature of the delays but it's probably not negligible. Maybe at some point the fear of having their ideas stolen or the lawsuit prevented them from being forthcomin. But at this stage when they're trying to pick-up momentum it's kind of disappointing to hear that they're going in the opposite direction of even less communication/transparency rather than embracing us and keeping us in the loop.
    Yep. It really seems that they have holed themselves up, which I hope isn't true as that isn't the game I signed on for. The community and game itself was built on the foundation bootlace talks about here and as annoying as we can be, it's that openness that has allowed people who have invested a massive amount of money and time into the game and still be promoting it when it is 3 years past its original promises and overlooking some serious missteps. Honestly I don't think many other games would have been able to endure some of the communication snafus that Hex has had over the years, there are a lot of examples of how that sort of thing deep sixes a dev.

    There has definitely been a severe change of tone in engaging the community, and if members of that community say it's alienating you really want them to be able to state so without fear of judgement. Especially at a time where you are going to lean quite heavily on that community to support your game in the biggest move since you were funded by the KS.

    It has been that openness that has also kept the game relevant IMO. Remember how they were going to mess with turn phases and reversed? By their own admittance, they would not have done that reversal without the griping of the community. I honestly believe we would have a far less engaging game on our hands.

    I also worry about the perception that another round of CM = silver bullet. The problem is bigger than what one person can do. Corey has said more than a few times that 'everyone reads the forums', and that they are 50 strong. We don't hear much from HexEnt employees though. I know they are busy, but they are cut from the same cloth as us, so I am assuming a lot of them want to weigh in. Are they not allowed to without going through a CM? It seems like HexEnt has stifled communication in general in fear of people standing on pieces of info (which, as other posters have pointed out, is probably far less damaging than the speculation that comes with hearing nothing). I agree that the most info we hear from is from people like Colin, and as much as we love him, that's not right and not fair to him. Nothing against the man, but I have always enjoyed hearing from people like Shaq and Chark (and the other ones that pop in) about a hundred times more than Cory, as of course we'll get unicorn farts and rainbows from him, that's kind of his job. Now it seems like those three are the only ones that really do any talking about what is going on with development and progress of the game.

    Ugh, said I was out of this debate. It's soooo important though. We're at a turning point with Steam release and this is the worst time ever to go dark on your community. That and I'm not thinking straight, been suffering a bought of insomnia and am a hotter mess than normal as a result.
    Last edited by fido_one; 04-13-2016 at 06:50 AM.

  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregangel View Post
    Right now as a hex community renowned for its conviviality and its generousness, we need to push set 4 in the back of our head (because nothing we say will change some fact) and think about the best way to welcome new players and make them stay

    If i were Cory and given the constant same complaints, i would shut down the kickstarter communication mode with friday updates and all.
    And i would apply a "no more communication about dev" until each patch update is 100 % ready to lauch next day and hold back the release 3 or 4 weeks to allow teasing and some spoilers activity.

    More like a lambda relationship between dev and players... but your loss
    Wouldn't it be easier to eliminate the middle man in that instance and let Hex die since that would be the end result of that approach anyways?

    I doubt many people would argue that a big reason Hex is still here and has as much support as it does is because of the past openness of Cory and the devs and how passionate the community is. If we had not had a single update or piece of information about Set 4 up until this point I would wager that these forums would either be dead or nothing but hostility and flaming of the game.
    Soon™
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  9. #119
    Yes until now. But with a steam release and, we hope, lots a new players who never heard about the game until now, will this kind of policy remain appropriate ?

  10. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregangel View Post
    Yes until now. But with a steam release and, we hope, lots a new players who never heard about the game until now, will this kind of policy remain appropriate ?
    Well if you take your policy suggestion, I give it a month before Steam down votes the game to oblivion. That policy is what made the game and why the people who play the game are rabid proponents of said game. Take it away, you don't have Hex anymore, you have a different game entirely which most of us wouldn't be interested in (and that includes people who never have gone to the forums).

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