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Thread: HEX Update - More of that Polish

  1. #31
    Let me try my hand at an update: They're working on it, they desperately want set4 released. Cory called out in an earlier interview what a mistake it was to have so much time between sets and that they're going to try desperately to get this set out asap and future sets out much much faster. Sadly no exact dates. But every day is a day closer. And we will hopefully never be in this situation again.

    I'll be happy to drop in daily to mention that it's being worked on as quickly as possible. Just in case.
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqattaq View Post
    It's not an ideal answer, but the answer is that we're closer every week and once we're able to give a specific date, we will. And you will know that specific date is as reliable as it can be and that we are confident in it. The old world we lived in was giving dates to satisfy players' wants, then unfortunately having those dates move on us because we gave them too early with too many unknowns still unresolved. That led to players making decisions and plans based on the info we gave, then having to re-arrange their lives when our dates moved. That's simply not respectful of the players' time. We want to not just give information, but to give better information. And that's why we do what we do now.
    The same thing pretty much happened when "early april" was thrown out though. I appreciate what you say, I would rather not have the "soon" stuff and just get a date when it's solid and definite.

    I will fall into your trap though and extrapolate that April might be off the table for set 4.

  3. #33
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  4. #34
    This isn't me noodling anything out of your post but you did imply that we were weeks away from a set 4 release.

    I can appreciate that you would have issues developing a timeline the first 2 possibly 3 sets but by now if you don't have an understanding as to where you should be at than hire someone to take notes.

    Get a project manager their entire job is to delegate and manage timelines. This all or nothing approach to communication is terrible even if you take a wall of text to try to explain your rational there.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqattaq View Post
    I can understand this perspective, but it's a complicated problem. Let's start with the assumption that the community, as a collection of individuals, will theoretically want infinite information. What satisfies one player's desire for information may not satisfy another, whether that's on depth on a specific topic or on the topic itself. So, it's an impossible goal but in general we try to share as much as possible.

    There's a general issue with providing information, though. Information creates expectations, which makes sense. If we say something, you should be able to take it at face value. In this case, we don't have accurate information to share. Giving you a date is, in a vacuum, easy, and certainly makes everyone happy-- you now have a specific target, and I don't have to address questions about the launch date anymore. If we had a date to share, certainly we would share it.

    But, we don't have a specific launch date to share. And as we give pieces of information as to why we don't have a date to announce, players would draw certain conclusions as to what the new information means when there's no hard, defined information available. We have players who try to noodle out the range of "soon" as an example. And if we hypothetically said "bugs," players would then want to know which exact bugs, which could (again, speaking in hypoptheticals) be pages upon pages of reports and information that changes at on hour-to-hour basis. And then what the expected timeframe was to solve said bugs. And then they'd debate which bugs weren't an issue and which ones were. And what if we have a range, but it's not a solid range and has to take in a bunch of other variables that we have a range on, but are not solid? We're at the same exact end-- no defined answer, and here we have a lot of information without full context that creates confusion at best.

    It's natural to want to put together a bunch of disparate pieces of information to come to an answer-- there's a question, and we as humans will try to use and mold information in order to create an answer. It's a puzzle, in that similar to a trading card game itself. But there in lies the problem. There is no answer. Any attempt to read between the lines will likely lead someone to incorrect conclusions and ultimately unrealized expectations.

    It's not an ideal answer, but the answer is that we're closer every week and once we're able to give a specific date, we will. And you will know that specific date is as reliable as it can be and that we are confident in it. The old world we lived in was giving dates to satisfy players' wants, then unfortunately having those dates move on us because we gave them too early with too many unknowns still unresolved. That led to players making decisions and plans based on the info we gave, then having to re-arrange their lives when our dates moved. That's simply not respectful of the players' time. We want to not just give information, but to give better information. And that's why we do what we do now.
    Thanks for this! I think what makes the matter 100 times worse for you all is that your player base is extraordinarily adept at using the logic that complicates the matters you put forth. Hex is a very complicated game and can be a very expensive game, so the community has a bit more oomph than normal behind the 'we want to know' as it typically is directly associated with their investment into the game. An RPG or action game, you pay for it, if it is released, you see the value and that's that. If Hex stops being successful the tens/hundreds/thousands dollar investment is destroyed so there is extra incentive for information. The 'pick apart the info and come up with hypotheticals' is a lot worse with our community as well as that methodology is inherent in playing Hex and making decks, etc.

    EDIT: A lot of times saying 'we have no info we can give out' is a lot better than nothing. Again, I think we get a bit more anxious as our investment is pretty closely tied to things like a new set release or going to Steam. Know it is more important for the good people at HexEnt but sadly I wouldn't expect the community to keep that in mind.
    Last edited by fido_one; 04-11-2016 at 12:48 PM.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Renquist View Post
    This isn't me noodling anything out of your post but you did imply that we were weeks away from a set 4 release.

    I can appreciate that you would have issues developing a timeline the first 2 possibly 3 sets but by now if you don't have an understanding as to where you should be at than hire someone to take notes.

    Get a project manager their entire job is to delegate and manage timelines. This all or nothing approach to communication is terrible even if you take a wall of text to try to explain your rational there.
    This is a sacrifice we make in order to deliver content to you as soon as possible. We don't have the same incubation time that other video games have where their content is done baking months in advance of even announcement, much less actual implementation. We believe players would rather have the features as soon as they're ready. If there's a point of conflict there, it's how early we announce these features (or discuss them) in order to satisfy player requests compared to when we're actually ready to release them.
    Please tweet me @HEXWilliam for a reliable, quick response. Thank you.

  7. #37
    Can't we have a sticky on the forum like this updated every 24 hours:

    Critical Big Bugs Left: 4
    Medium Bugs Left: 5
    Small Bugs Left: 11

    People will have some sense of progress/timeline seeing some numbers go down (or up) - but it won't be anything concrete which you understandably can't give. If you're stuck on a few critical bugs you can make a small forum post as Chris Woods did just prior to Set 3 which went over very well with players. Just an idea, I'm sure it has it's advantages/disadvantages.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by bootlace View Post
    Can't we have a sticky on the forum like this updated every 24 hours:

    Critical Big Bugs Left: 4
    Medium Bugs Left: 5
    Small Bugs Left: 11

    People will have some sense of progress/timeline seeing some numbers go down (or up) - but it won't be anything concrete which you understandably can't give. If you're stuck on a few critical bugs you can make a small forum post as Chris Woods did just prior to Set 3 which went over very well with players. Just an idea, I'm sure it has it's advantages/disadvantages.
    I think in theory that's a great idea, and if the issue were that simple it's something we could easily do-- though I do wonder how many players are familiar with game development enough to understand that the number of bugs doesn't always go down as a rule, and how many players would begin to project their own incorrect timelines based on the pace and cadence. All bugs are not created equal.

    As far as Primal Dawn itself, what's presented there also isn't really the scope of the problem. There are many variables connected to HEX itself, which in turn affects Primal Dawn. What we've done with this most recent patch is fixing a ton of things both up-front and behind the scenes with the game, for example. Some of these fixes are also quality-of-life improvements or even optimizations from which we pull data in order to determine whether or not the fix worked. And, as is often the case with these things, the answer isn't binary-- good or bad. It's often in-between. Would've been pretty hard to distill all down into a bug count before its release.
    Please tweet me @HEXWilliam for a reliable, quick response. Thank you.

  9. #39
    Do you agree that not having a release date now looks really bad?

    Early April can really only be counted as any day up to and including the 14 (at a push), I don't see a surprise launch in the next couple of days so it seems like that is not happening.

    People are rapidly losing faith in the company to be able to produce content in any sort of decent time frame. Every day and week that goes by is just more frustration for people that there is a great game that could possibly fail (something no one wants).

    The problem with more delays on this set is it just makes it feel like there is no chance of a regular release schedule. If it takes 9-10 months between set 3 and 4, is there really any hope of set 5 taking 4-5 months? Hard to believe.

    I don't know what the solution is but something drastic needs to happen to keep players happy and get things moving a lot quicker on the back end.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqattaq View Post
    I can understand this perspective, but it's a complicated problem. Let's start with the assumption that the community, as a collection of individuals, will theoretically want infinite information. What satisfies one player's desire for information may not satisfy another, whether that's on depth on a specific topic or on the topic itself. So, it's an impossible goal but in general we try to share as much as possible.

    There's a general issue with providing information, though. Information creates expectations, which makes sense. If we say something, you should be able to take it at face value. In this case, we don't have accurate information to share. Giving you a date is, in a vacuum, easy, and certainly makes everyone happy-- you now have a specific target, and I don't have to address questions about the launch date anymore. If we had a date to share, certainly we would share it.

    But, we don't have a specific launch date to share. And as we give pieces of information as to why we don't have a date to announce, players would draw certain conclusions as to what the new information means when there's no hard, defined information available. We have players who try to noodle out the range of "soon" as an example. And if we hypothetically said "bugs," players would then want to know which exact bugs, which could (again, speaking in hypoptheticals) be pages upon pages of reports and information that changes at on hour-to-hour basis. And then what the expected timeframe was to solve said bugs. And then they'd debate which bugs weren't an issue and which ones were. And what if we have a range, but it's not a solid range and has to take in a bunch of other variables that we have a range on, but are not solid? We're at the same exact end-- no defined answer, and here we have a lot of information without full context that creates confusion at best.

    It's natural to want to put together a bunch of disparate pieces of information to come to an answer-- there's a question, and we as humans will try to use and mold information in order to create an answer. It's a puzzle, in that similar to a trading card game itself. But there in lies the problem. There is no answer. Any attempt to read between the lines will likely lead someone to incorrect conclusions and ultimately unrealized expectations.

    It's not an ideal answer, but the answer is that we're closer every week and once we're able to give a specific date, we will. And you will know that specific date is as reliable as it can be and that we are confident in it. The old world we lived in was giving dates to satisfy players' wants, then unfortunately having those dates move on us because we gave them too early with too many unknowns still unresolved. That led to players making decisions and plans based on the info we gave, then having to re-arrange their lives when our dates moved. That's simply not respectful of the players' time. We want to not just give information, but to give better information. And that's why we do what we do now.
    This to me this is bad all it says is we dont know when stuff will be done and wont be held to a time line. wich is bad as we know sets should be 3-4month at most all of us waiting around for new set 9 + months >_> have no proof other than hex saying we want sets to be quicker just take ower word with no proof that things are geting beter. if this was any other game i dont know how i can justify the wait and a company that cant or wont be held to deadlines.

    Tell me this if you cant give dates and keep to them why should we trust that things are going to get beter?

    i love the game to bits and you are improving the game its just the timeline is beyond pathetic with no proof its geting beter.
    Last edited by bofedy; 04-11-2016 at 01:45 PM.

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