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  1. #51
    We played one game last night. Shade (80), Jason (74), Black Orchid (34). Black Orchid couldn't compete at all, but he played kinda poorly and had really bad luck. Let me say first - THIS IS AN AWESOME GAME. I see a ton of potential - but as you yourself have said throughout this thread, it needs more play testing and adjustment before it's done.

    Questions, Comments, and Notes:

    Do cards under your super hero count towards VP at the end of the game?

    Shade still seems rather OP, and I accidentally played his effect as "2 or more of the same non-Starter card type" because I had your Shade from the print sheet on BGG - which should be harder than two different non-Starter card types. Perhaps he should not have 6 cards the next turn after activating his effect. According to the Forever Evil end of turn sequence, you resolve end of turn effects before drawing a new hand. If you want any card to defy this sequence, it should be worded as such.
    Capture.jpg

    Tim Hunter has a typo - missing the word "put"

    Do Blood's Armor and Sword of Etrigan also flip over Etrigan, or just Jason Blood?

    Do Blood's Armor and Sword of Etrigan flip Jason Blood if you are not Jason Blood and play the card? The way it reads, yes, you would.

    Can Etrigan's effect be activated more than once a turn, if he ends up getting flipped multiple times?

    Breath of Fire - I would remove the comma to make the intention more clear and use 'placed' if you want to indicate past tense. The verb 'put' is difficult because I think it isn't clear whether it indicates past, present, or future tense. Based on the wording, this game text does not look forward, so you must have already destroyed a card or placed a card under your hero before playing this card to get the additional +2 power.

    Impose on a Sorcerer - Checking to see if you intended this to cause any ongoing super powers in play (like the defenses) to be immediately discarded since their game text is changed and are no longer ongoing. Pretty sure Cryptozoic ruled that they are discarded.

    Possessed - Can the Possessed player activate the line-up ongoing ability during each player's turn, or only during his own turn? A Trojan Spirit explicitly says "at the start of their turn" but Possessed does not state a timing.

    A Trojan Spirit - can the chosen player be yourself? So you could gain a starter from your own discard pile if you had one, and you could discard a SV to your own discard pile to defeat it?

    Arcane Exhaustion - I would change the TO DEFEAT to "At the start of your turn, you may discard your hand..." and I would allow a player to do this even if their hand was empty, but you might prefer to make the player have at least one card to discard.

    Drive Off the Shadows - Just confirming that you do want the destroy all weaknesses effect to activate when another Event comes out and is placed on top of it. Also confirming that you still want it to be hand and discard pile.

    I think I would suggest adding 1 more Demon to the deck, for 4 total.

    I was going to suggest making all Super Villains for this game original and not involve any from other sets, but the ones you chose all fit really well - except Harvest. I assume you also chose him because he interacts with Heroes - maybe give him a different effect that interacts with Heroes. I haven't seen the movie so I don't know if he fits in that way, but if he does, maybe pick a different artwork and effect. Especially since there aren't any ongoing Heroes in this game.

    Floronic Man - I would consider making the attack "Each player puts a location they control, have in hand, or in their discard pile into the Line-Up" instead of just control.

    Shade's Hidden Objective 'Out of Control' isn't fun to play. It would take too much time to keep counting your VP and since it is 'out of your control' there's no real objective to play toward.

    I think you need some main deck attack cards to discard locations from play.

    I would consider adding a location that let's you buy from the destroyed pile (New York City).

    I would consider giving Deadman or Black Orchid an effect that interacts with cards under your superhero instead of their current effects. Or something that interacts with the destroyed pile. I do like this version of Black Orchid, but it made need a little bit of a boost to compete with the other very powerful Heroes in this game. What do you think of "If you used a location's effect this turn, draw a card and you may put a card from your hand or discard pile under your Super Hero." for one of them?

    I would consider adding a location (or making one of the Hero's effects) to be able to do something to place or discard a card from under your Super Hero each turn (but different from Zatanna).
    Last edited by andymo24; 04-19-2017 at 01:01 PM.

  2. #52
    I think Constantine should gain a weakness for playing a card with cost 0 off the top of his deck. That even plays into the cancer aspect of his smoking and backstory.

    I think a more balanced Shade would be "If you played 2 or more cards of the same type during your turn, after drawing a new hand put the bottom card of the main deck into your hand and then destroy a card in your hand."

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I think Constantine should gain a weakness for playing a card with cost 0 off the top of his deck. That even plays into the cancer aspect of his smoking and backstory.

    I think a more balanced Shade would be "If you played 2 or more cards of the same type during your turn, after drawing a new hand put the bottom card of the main deck into your hand and then destroy a card in your hand."
    Is your Constantine observation based on play time now? I'm not opposed to making the change. I'll give it some test games like that myself as well.

    As for Shade, that's fine. I think that wording works too. But that does trigger on playing 2 starters if you leave out "Non-Starter card types". Did you intend to?

  4. #54
    For Shade, we made it non-Starter.

    Last night we played Constantine (72), Batman (25), and Zatanna (23). Constantine had 5 power his first turn, and only went up from there. He was buying the SV almost every turn within a few rounds. Batman managed to get one.
    Then Destiny came out, and his base cost was 10 from your print sheets. It was a miracle Constantine was finally able to beat him thanks to some intentional help through The Blight letting him draw three cards (Zatanna destroyed a 2 VP card) and he had Demonic Influence. The cost was like 25.

    The next game we played was Swamp Thing, Black Orchid, and Shade (but Shade's effect was to play two non-starters of the same type, destroy a card played, and put the bottom card of the main deck into his hand and draw 4, so he has a 5 card hand). This was a pretty competitive game and Swamp Thing won, but we couldn't beat Destiny and had to run out the main deck. I still feel like this version of Shade is very strong (compared to other Cryptozoic Super Heroes) because if he were playing correctly, he would limit himself to only a couple card types until he got some draw power or destroyed several starters. Just load up on kicks.

    Have you really not had this much trouble in your play testing? In a 3-player game, if nobody defends Destiny's FAA his cost goes up by 3 and everyone has 2 less cards to try to beat him with, and costs 1 more every turn. By the time it comes around to the first player with a full hand again, his cost is 15, but now the player has 4 cards. To compound it, there are lots of attacks that either make everyone discard a card or put a card from their hand under their hero, but there are some decent draw defenses so players could have 3 to 6 cards by the time it's their turn. I'm not sure if there's enough draw support or massive power cards to make a 30+ power turn. Maybe Destiny's "put a card under Destiny" effect should be an attack each play could defend, or a card from the discard pile instead of hand.

    Maybe the design of this game is to have crazy strong Super Heroes to clean out your deck quick and take down the SVs really fast. I feel like if you're letting Constantine and Shade destroy starters so easily on top of giving them power or gaining cards for free, all the other heroes need to have a similar power.
    Last edited by andymo24; 04-20-2017 at 08:03 AM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    For Shade, we made it non-Starter.

    Last night we played Constantine (72), Batman (25), and Zatanna (23). Constantine had 5 power his first turn, and only went up from there. He was buying the SV almost every turn within a few rounds. Batman managed to get one.
    Then Destiny came out, and his base cost was 10 from your print sheets. It was a miracle Constantine was finally able to beat him thanks to some intentional help through The Blight letting him draw three cards (Zatanna destroyed a 2 VP card) and he had Demonic Influence. The cost was like 25.

    The next game we played was Swamp Thing, Black Orchid, and Shade (but Shade's effect was to play two non-starters of the same type, destroy a card played, and put the bottom card of the main deck into his hand and draw 4, so he has a 5 card hand). This was a pretty competitive game and Swamp Thing won, but we couldn't beat Destiny and had to run out the main deck. I still feel like this version of Shade is very strong (compared to other Cryptozoic Super Heroes) because if he were playing correctly, he would limit himself to only a couple card types until he got some draw power or destroyed several starters. Just load up on kicks.

    Have you really not had this much trouble in your play testing? In a 3-player game, if nobody defends Destiny's FAA his cost goes up by 3 and everyone has 2 less cards to try to beat him with, and costs 1 more every turn. By the time it comes around to the first player with a full hand again, his cost is 15, but now the player has 4 cards. To compound it, there are lots of attacks that either make everyone discard a card or put a card from their hand under their hero, but there are some decent draw defenses so players could have 3 to 6 cards by the time it's their turn. I'm not sure if there's enough draw support or massive power cards to make a 30+ power turn. Maybe Destiny's "put a card under Destiny" effect should be an attack each play could defend, or a card from the discard pile instead of hand.

    Maybe the design of this game is to have crazy strong Super Heroes to clean out your deck quick and take down the SVs really fast. I feel like if you're letting Constantine and Shade destroy starters so easily on top of giving them power or gaining cards for free, all the other heroes need to have a similar power.
    First off, great data. Thanks for trying the set out!

    In about 35 games, we've not had Constantine go off that harshly. But as you mentioned, I might be able to come up with some good wording to add a Weakness to his deck as well.

    You didn't happen to list the score of the second game you played. How did Shade do? How many times roughly, did his ability even trigger?

    As for Destiny, no, we've not had many issues. Usually someone is able to take him down within a few rounds. But, I will say that we had him at 9 base for probably 25 of the games or so. That 1 Power difference might matter. The last few we've done have been quite difficult to defeat, and we got close to running the deck out. I think the idea of putting a card from your discard pile under him is probably a good solution, without going back to the 9 Cost base. If not, we'll go back to 9 as well.

    Again, thanks for the efforts so far.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by t_tibke View Post
    First off, great data. Thanks for trying the set out!

    ...

    Again, thanks for the efforts so far.
    I'm definitely not being critical - just trying to share my thoughts and help it improve. Sometimes it's difficult to convey positivity in plain text. It is a lot of fun!

  7. #57
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    JLD - Rules Clarifications & Feedback

    Woah. Did this post get edited? I missed this entire post! And very happy you like how it plays--it's got a nice level of complexity for experienced DC DBG players, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Do cards under your super hero count towards VP at the end of the game?
    Ah yes. I forgot to list this as a rule change. As of this set, cards under your Super Hero count towards your VP.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Shade still seems rather OP, and I accidentally played his effect as "2 or more of the same non-Starter card type" because I had your Shade from the print sheet on BGG - which should be harder than two different non-Starter card types. Perhaps he should not have 6 cards the next turn after activating his effect. According to the Forever Evil end of turn sequence, you resolve end of turn effects before drawing a new hand. If you want any card to defy this sequence, it should be worded as such.
    The one on the print sheet is the most recent and the one we've been testing most recent. We've been averaging about 5x a game that his ability triggers. With that level of infrequency, and the way turn sequence works, the 6 card hand felt okay. But if he still feels OP, I think your adjustment below works well to keep him at a 5 card hand. He's still evolving. We're just about there. See where he's grown from?

    Shade_Options.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Tim Hunter has a typo - missing the word "put"
    Thanks. I'll fix and update the print sheets.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Do Blood's Armor and Sword of Etrigan also flip over Etrigan, or just Jason Blood?

    Do Blood's Armor and Sword of Etrigan flip Jason Blood if you are not Jason Blood and play the card? The way it reads, yes, you would.

    Can Etrigan's effect be activated more than once a turn, if he ends up getting flipped multiple times?
    These Equipment cards only affect Jason Blood, so they don't turn Etrigan back into the weakling, ha. And yes, they work to do so, even if another player plays them. And yes, Etrigan can flip back and forth several times between the player's turns. But flipping the card isn't what triggers Etrigan's ability. He just has that ability that is just on during your turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Breath of Fire - I would remove the comma to make the intention more clear and use 'placed' if you want to indicate past tense. The verb 'put' is difficult because I think it isn't clear whether it indicates past, present, or future tense. Based on the wording, this game text does not look forward, so you must have already destroyed a card or placed a card under your hero before playing this card to get the additional +2 power.
    +4 Power if you destroyed a card this turn or placed a card under your Super Hero. Otherwise, +2 Power.

    Works for me, and you're probably right--this is clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Impose on a Sorcerer - Checking to see if you intended this to cause any ongoing super powers in play (like the defenses) to be immediately discarded since their game text is changed and are no longer ongoing. Pretty sure Cryptozoic ruled that they are discarded.
    Didn't consider this, but I'm good with the way Cryptozoic has ruled this. This hurts the 4 Ongoing Defenses though pretty hard though.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Possessed - Can the Possessed player activate the line-up ongoing ability during each player's turn, or only during his own turn? A Trojan Spirit explicitly says "at the start of their turn" but Possessed does not state a timing.
    You're right. I'll update Possessed. It's only meant to be on their own turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    A Trojan Spirit - can the chosen player be yourself? So you could gain a starter from your own discard pile if you had one, and you could discard a SV to your own discard pile to defeat it?
    I should change "player" to "foe". Will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Arcane Exhaustion - I would change the TO DEFEAT to "At the start of your turn, you may discard your hand..." and I would allow a player to do this even if their hand was empty, but you might prefer to make the player have at least one card to discard.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Drive Off the Shrouds - Just confirming that you do want the destroy all weaknesses effect to activate when another Event comes out and is placed on top of it. Also confirming that you still want it to be hand and discard pile.
    Yes, and yes. The reason for the "destroy on replacement" effect is because it may never happen if you don't do it when it's replaced, and this felt REALLY bad for the target. I'm even okay if they DO eventually get the Event and clear out their hand and discard pile of Weaknesses again, even after the clear out from replacement of the Event. Keep in mind that any Weaknesses in your deck are stuck there. So there's always chances that this happens to some or all of the Weaknesses they have still.



    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I think I would suggest adding 1 more Demon to the deck, for 4 total.
    Hmm. I could, but what would I drop from the villains for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I was going to suggest making all Super Villains for this game original and not involve any from other sets, but the ones you chose all fit really well - except Harvest. I assume you also chose him because he interacts with Heroes - maybe give him a different effect that interacts with Heroes. I haven't seen the movie so I don't know if he fits in that way, but if he does, maybe pick a different artwork and effect. Especially since there aren't any ongoing Heroes in this game.
    Sure. I'm open to other Super-Villains of the occult/magical nature. Harvest still hits your hand so it didn't feel too odd. I don't have any issue switching it out for a new Super-Villain as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Floronic Man - I would consider making the attack "Each player puts a location they control, have in hand, or in their discard pile into the Line-Up" instead of just control.
    Sure. I think we've hit a location out there w/ this card maybe 2x ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Shade's Hidden Objective 'Out of Control' isn't fun to play. It would take too much time to keep counting your VP and since it is 'out of your control' there's no real objective to play toward.
    True. That was why it's only worth 3. But if it's a fun factor, I'm open to new options here.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I think you need some main deck attack cards to discard locations from play.
    I'm out of room, but I can modify something already out there that has overlap in functionality. Just not sure what yet. I can see that being a valuable thing to do though.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I would consider adding a location that let's you buy from the destroyed pile (New York City).
    An even 10 Locations? Nanda Parbat is still meh. I could modify that instead? Seems decent.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I would consider giving Deadman or Black Orchid an effect that interacts with cards under your superhero instead of their current effects. Or something that interacts with the destroyed pile. I do like this version of Black Orchid, but it made need a little bit of a boost to compete with the other very powerful Heroes in this game. What do you think of "If you used a location's effect this turn, draw a card and you may put a card from your hand or discard pile under your Super Hero." for one of them?
    I've been trying to get Black Orchid to a good spot since the beginning. Let's try out your suggestion here for Black Orchid. I'd consider a slight beef up to ... +1 Power and draw a card... I'm pretty happy with Deadman at this point, but as an option, someone else on BGG had a different Deadman that interacted w/ the destroyed pile.

    More great feedback, thank you for everything your group is doing to help polish this set.
    Last edited by t_tibke; 04-20-2017 at 05:47 PM.

  8. #58
    I played one game with my much more experienced group last night. Jason Blood did very poorly, but he also wasn't into it and really wasn't paying attention or thinking through how to trigger his flip, or even use his +2 and draw 1.
    I feel like this is obvious, but to confirm, JB can choose not to play all his cards on his turn and purposely only generate 4 power or less in order to trigger his flip, right?

    Several notes for Zatanna. "If you played a Non-Starter this turn, you may pay 2 power to put a card under Zatanna into your hand, or 1 power to put a card from your hand under Zatanna." How many times can you do each of these actions each turn? Can you do both once? Both as many times as you can afford? I haven't played with her yet but she hasn't been doing well when my friends do. I would also change her to "pay 2 power to play a card from under Zatanna" so that she can benefit from Shadowcrest location. Or change the wording of Shadowcrest to "Each card you play this turn that was under your Super Hero get an additional +1 Power." so that playing it from your hand doesn't remove that +1 benefit. I think I would change Shadowcrest instead of Zatanna because I don't think the location is tempting/good enough. Having the ability to put a card in your hand and get more options by deciding when/if to play it is a bit more useful than playing it directly from under your Hero. Same with Zatanna letting you put it in your hand instead of a direct play.

    I was Deadman. Phobia came out early and Zat got it. JB gave me a vulnerability. I proceeded to destroy them the rest of the game and won by a wide margin. I had no trouble with Destiny this time. They thought that drawing two cards was OP but I don't know if I agree. Needs more play testing but an alternative could be "draw 1 card and you may destroy a card in your hand or discard pile." Or maybe "draw one card and you may put a card from your hand on the bottom of your deck and draw an additional card." I think he may have seemed OP because of all the attack cards.

    I do think there are too many attacks to make players discard cards (or put from hand under Hero), and Helmet of Fate is everyone's least favorite defense. I would consider trying to use less cards that already exist and make something that ties into the comic or movie, even if it has a very similar effect as a card that already exists. Maybe use a Shimmer instead of Phobia. Jason Blood just never had a hand toward the end of the game, always lost his cards.

    Other notes/questions/comments:

    I liked your comment from way before about cards under your Hero being like a spell book. Maybe for this game, there's a different zone for cards under your Hero with its own rules, which may be different from cards put there by Atrocitus or the Arrow Crossover or Crisis Bane. Cryptozoic has made that rule before. That would justify your rule that they keep VP and are not destroyed at the end of the game. You could also make cards that interact with cards under your Hero Spell cards that could be referenced in the rules or targeted as Spell cards (+1 power and add a Spell card from your discard pile to your hand).

    I think Network Enforcer should be "Draw a card for each Network Enforcer you have already played this turn." so a third one would let you draw 2, and Magic would activate it too.

    Papa Midnite - Did you intend for him to attack even if there is not an event in the lineup, so that other players can still use a defense if they want? He might be too powerful to cost 5 and give 2 VP. I would either make him 1 VP or cost 6.

    Black Boris is really OP. I would consider making him +2 power, and make his effect target each player's discard pile instead of hand.

    I would add another Zatanna's Black Hat, and it really should cost 4 or only give +2 power.

    Changing Man and Bend Reality having such similar effects but costing the same doesn't seem right to me. Maybe add another Bend Reality, and change Changing Man to do something that works really well and more directly with Shade, like "Reveal and draw the top card of your deck. Put a card of the same type from your discard pile into your hand. If you cannot, draw an additional card." This effect would probably cost 6 and only have 1 copy in the deck. Or maybe something to add a card from the destroyed pile to the bottom of the main deck (Stargirl from Forever Evil) or reveal the bottom 3 card of the main deck and replace them in any order.
    **I really think you need to buy Forever Evil and play it many times - there are a lot of interesting mechanics in that game and a lot of different play experiences that would really enlighten your design on JLD** And anyone making recommendations for this game should probably have plenty of Arrow Crossover experience, including you and me, which I believe we don't.

    I would have only one copy of Utility Belt in the deck. Maybe add/make another card to give VP for a different type. (+1 VP for each Spell card? )

    If you use Pralaya to defeat an event, do you still have to pay the cost to buy the event? Since you still get VP for cards under your Hero at the end of the game, I would say you should still have to pay the cost to buy the event.

    Does putting a card under your Hero remove destroy effects (or return effects) if there are any placed on that card? That may be a Cerberus engine question for Cryptozoic.

    I'd add another copy of Fateful Spell and Books of Magic.

    Black Hand and Skeleton Key should both probably cost 4.

    Solomon Grundy should do more. Like +3 power and draw a card, or +2 power and draw a card and cost 9 or 8, or cost 9 or 8 as he is now.

    Floronic Man - we made it so if you chose a location you already control, you can use it twice. It may also be interesting to make him +Power for each location you control or in play.

    Enchantress doesn't seem powerful enough. She's not tempting to buy. Maybe make her play the top card of your deck and a random card from under your Super Hero, and you can choose whether or not to return any of them.


    Hey Cryptozoic, you hiring?
    Last edited by andymo24; 04-21-2017 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #59
    I feel like I haven't said some of the things I really like about this game - and there are a lot. Really fun and interesting mechanics, interaction and strategies, and some really well-designed cards.

    Mindwarp and Ritchie Simpson are great. Incorporeal and Power Circle are really well done. Tim Hunter is great (but maybe should cost 3). Andrew Bennet, Fateful Spell, Regrowth, Klarion Bleak, Gentleman Ghost, Dr. Mist, Books of Magic - all great designs.

    I like Sword of Etrigan but I don't know about it costing only 4. Maybe cost 5 as it is, or cut it to +1 Power instead of +2. It's extremely powerful, adding a villain from your discard pile to your hand. Maybe that's the point, including three in the deck. Maybe add another?

    Maybe add another Blood's Armor and make the defense let you draw two cards. Or make it a reveal defense instead of discard. "you may reveal this card to avoid an attack. If you do, flip over Jason Blood." And it keeps its play effect. That might need to cost 6.
    Last edited by andymo24; 04-21-2017 at 06:08 PM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I played one game with my much more experienced group last night. Jason Blood did very poorly, but he also wasn't into it and really wasn't paying attention or thinking through how to trigger his flip, or even use his +2 and draw 1.
    I feel like this is obvious, but to confirm, JB can choose not to play all his cards on his turn and purposely only generate 4 power or less in order to trigger his flip, right?
    Yep, that's perfectly fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Several notes for Zatanna. "If you played a Non-Starter this turn, you may pay 2 power to put a card under Zatanna into your hand, or 1 power to put a card from your hand under Zatanna." How many times can you do each of these actions each turn? Can you do both once? Both as many times as you can afford? I haven't played with her yet but she hasn't been doing well when my friends do.
    Alright, I agree. Someone else suggested this nerf to her. I have an alternative that is probably better that I'm ready to try out now myself. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

    Zatanna.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I would also change her to "pay 2 power to play a card from under Zatanna" so that she can benefit from Shadowcrest location. Or change the wording of Shadowcrest to "Each card you play this turn that was under your Super Hero get an additional +1 Power." so that playing it from your hand doesn't remove that +1 benefit. I think I would change Shadowcrest instead of Zatanna because I don't think the location is tempting/good enough. Having the ability to put a card in your hand and get more options by deciding when/if to play it is a bit more useful than playing it directly from under your Hero. Same with Zatanna letting you put it in your hand instead of a direct play.
    I'll update Shadowcrest for this then, yeah.
    Shadowcrest.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I was Deadman. Phobia came out early and Zat got it. JB gave me a vulnerability. I proceeded to destroy them the rest of the game and won by a wide margin. I had no trouble with Destiny this time. They thought that drawing two cards was OP but I don't know if I agree. Needs more play testing but an alternative could be "draw 1 card and you may destroy a card in your hand or discard pile." Or maybe "draw one card and you may put a card from your hand on the bottom of your deck and draw an additional card." I think he may have seemed OP because of all the attack cards.
    I have only played w/ Deadman a few times since going up to 2 card draws. I'm not sure it's OP yet, but he was at least able to win once. I'm making a reduction in the number of attacks in the set though, so that might help as well. Also to the defenses available so it might be easier for everyone to get some useful ones as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I do think there are too many attacks to make players discard cards (or put from hand under Hero), and Helmet of Fate is everyone's least favorite defense. I would consider trying to use less cards that already exist and make something that ties into the comic or movie, even if it has a very similar effect as a card that already exists. Maybe use a Shimmer instead of Phobia. Jason Blood just never had a hand toward the end of the game, always lost his cards.
    Yeah, reducing attacks a bit feels right. I already had this suspicion anyway but this confirms it too.

    Other notes/questions/comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I liked your comment from way before about cards under your Hero being like a spell book. Maybe for this game, there's a different zone for cards under your Hero with its own rules, which may be different from cards put there by Atrocitus or the Arrow Crossover or Crisis Bane. Cryptozoic has made that rule before. That would justify your rule that they keep VP and are not destroyed at the end of the game. You could also make cards that interact with cards under your Hero Spell cards that could be referenced in the rules or targeted as Spell cards (+1 power and add a Spell card from your discard pile to your hand).
    That would be cool. I do like the Spell idea. But at this point that's a big rework into everything I think and a whole other theme to support in the set. Maybe in an expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I think Network Enforcer should be "Draw a card for each Network Enforcer you have already played this turn." so a third one would let you draw 2, and Magic would activate it too.
    I've never actually managed to get a 2nd even played, but alright. That justify the beef up in the card.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Papa Midnite - Did you intend for him to attack even if there is not an event in the lineup, so that other players can still use a defense if they want? He might be too powerful to cost 5 and give 2 VP. I would either make him 1 VP or cost 6.
    Sure. That'd be how it works. I think the 2 VP is a typo on him. I'll drop to 1.
    PapaMidnite.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Black Boris is really OP. I would consider making him +2 power, and make his effect target each player's discard pile instead of hand.
    Yep. I'll change the text to "discard pile" and raise the cost to 5. I have the room there.


    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Changing Man and Bend Reality having such similar effects but costing the same doesn't seem right to me. Maybe add another Bend Reality, and change Changing Man to do something that works really well and more directly with Shade, like "Reveal and draw the top card of your deck. Put a card of the same type from your discard pile into your hand. If you cannot, draw an additional card." This effect would probably cost 6 and only have 1 copy in the deck. Or maybe something to add a card from the destroyed pile to the bottom of the main deck (Stargirl from Forever Evil) or reveal the bottom 3 card of the main deck and replace them in any order.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    **I really think you need to buy Forever Evil and play it many times - there are a lot of interesting mechanics in that game and a lot of different play experiences that would really enlighten your design on JLD** And anyone making recommendations for this game should probably have plenty of Arrow Crossover experience, including you and me, which I believe we don't.
    FE arrived the day before you posted this, and I've now had some playtime with it. Some cool stuff. And as for Arrow, that set is basically 9 cards. I consider that almost unplayable, but I do have the card list and tried to apply several aspects of it here and there.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    If you use Pralaya to defeat an event, do you still have to pay the cost to buy the event? Since you still get VP for cards under your Hero at the end of the game, I would say you should still have to pay the cost to buy the event.
    No, she defeats the entire event. If you can find a good way to get her back out from under your Super Hero and use her again, the more power to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    I'd add another copy of Fateful Spell and Books of Magic.
    Black Hand and Skeleton Key should both probably cost 4.
    Solomon Grundy should do more. Like +3 power and draw a card, or +2 power and draw a card and cost 9 or 8, or cost 9 or 8 as he is now.
    As much as I like Fateful Spell, that card is quite strong. Skeleton Key maybe. And Solomon Grundy already got bumped up from what he was in X2 or X3 or wherever I got the initial design from. He was only +2 Power in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Floronic Man - we made it so if you chose a location you already control, you can use it twice. It may also be interesting to make him +Power for each location you control or in play.
    I'll mess w/ that a bit, sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by andymo24 View Post
    Enchantress doesn't seem powerful enough. She's not tempting to buy. Maybe make her play the top card of your deck and a random card from under your Super Hero, and you can choose whether or not to return any of them.
    That's been the consensus with us so far too. I'll mess with her too.

    Hey Cryptozoic, you hiring?
    Last edited by t_tibke; 04-24-2017 at 06:59 AM.

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