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  1. #1

    DC Deckbuilder, the word OR

    so this is probably a stupid question but this came up tonight in our DC game..... (I have a lot of players that split hairs on card wording...)

    ok this is an interesting conversation that just came up today. now ive seen the ruling that OR on a supervillan means you get to pick for example, if a super says to destroy a card in your hand or discard pile, you get to pick either hand or discard pile then resolve it. so the debate came up with this, since OR means one or the other. does it mean the same thing when it refers to this...."discard a card cost 3 or Less..." can you pick 3, or a card that cost less, so lets say you picked 3 and you didn't have a 3 cost. I know this is really splitting hairs, but you have to understand the jack@$$es I game with.

  2. #2
    In this case, you're not being given a choice. A more nitpicky way to read it is "Discard a card which costs between 0 and 3, including 0 and 3."

  3. #3
    Cryptozoic Employee Matt_Hyra's Avatar
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    And also, let's say an Attack reads "Destroy a Hero in your hand or discard pile."
    This is shorthand for: "Look in your hand. Look in your discard pile. Destroy a Hero in one of those zones."

    Example: You have a Hero in your hand, but not your discard pile.
    You cannot "choose" discard pile and save the Hero in hand.
    Matt Hyra
    Cryptozoic R&D

  4. #4
    ok I could have sworn you ruled it the other way around on the rule clarification page..........

    well that makes my game that much more terrible. of coarse my friend who knows the English language better than most lawyers will have a major argument about that, but ill let him know that weve been playing it wrong for the last couple years lol

    the problem he and my other friend is having with that is that the word in the English language, OR, entitles a choice. in most card games you cannot use a shorthand for anything or it will be exploited. that is why there are so many cards in magic the gathering that have lengthy explanations on cards, because in the mid 90's they realized how badly a card can be exploited if not explained properly.

    my friend just got back to me on this comment, and said if the word "OR" is used it should have the word "either" or "must" for example. "destroy a hero in either your hand or discard pile." OR. "you must destroy a card in your hand or discard pile" without those 2 words placed in the sentence the cards do no say what you want them to say.

    Webster's dictionary definition of OR
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/or
    Last edited by CushionRide; 03-08-2018 at 08:58 PM.

  5. #5
    Cryptozoic Employee Matt_Hyra's Avatar
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    Must doesn't add anything.
    "Give me $20 or I shoot you."
    "You must give me $20 or I'll shoot you."

    "Draw a card."
    "You must draw a card."
    No one ever fails to draw a card when they read the shorter version.

    "Destroy a Hero in your hand or discard pile."
    If we wanted you to be able to dodge the attack we would have written it thusly:

    Choose your hand or your discard pile. If there are one or more Heroes in that zone, destroy one of them.

    I would rather have some people play it wrong, and have fun not knowing they are playing it "wrong," than to add some extra helper words to the cards.
    Last edited by Matt_Hyra; 03-09-2018 at 10:50 AM.
    Matt Hyra
    Cryptozoic R&D

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Hyra View Post
    If we wanted you to be able to dodge the attack we would have written it thusly:

    Choose your hand or your discard pile. If there are one or more Heroes in that zone, destroy one of them.
    Nice use of the word 'thusly!'

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Hyra View Post
    And also, let's say an Attack reads "Destroy a Hero in your hand or discard pile."
    This is shorthand for: "Look in your hand. Look in your discard pile. Destroy a Hero in one of those zones."

    Example: You have a Hero in your hand, but not your discard pile.
    You cannot "choose" discard pile and save the Hero in hand.
    I believe it was once said if the attack was "destroy a hero and a villain in your hand or discard pile", in your hand you had both a hero and a villain, but your discard pile just a villain, you could still choose the discard pile. In other words as long as you were able to get hit in either location, you could choose either, even if you would get smacked harder in one than the other. Am I remembering that right?

  8. #8
    Cryptozoic Employee Matt_Hyra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpatzAI View Post
    Am I remembering that right?
    I don't think so. If it ever was ruled that way, that is not how we want it anymore. You should not be dodging attacks by faking out the card text.
    Matt Hyra
    Cryptozoic R&D

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SpatzAI View Post
    I believe it was once said if the attack was "destroy a hero and a villain in your hand or discard pile", in your hand you had both a hero and a villain, but your discard pile just a villain, you could still choose the discard pile. In other words as long as you were able to get hit in either location, you could choose either, even if you would get smacked harder in one than the other. Am I remembering that right?
    I'm pretty sure inthat situation the card says you HAVE To destroy a Villain AND a Hero, and that you can choose from either the hand or discard pile as needed. So, in the case of one of each in the hand and one villain the discard pile, you MUST destroy the hero in the your hand, but you can choose which villain to destroy.

    If you have one hero in hand and one villain in the discard pile, both are gone to fulfill the card requirements.

    If you have a hero and villain in hand and also have a hero and villain in the discard pile, you can destroy both in hand, both in the discard pile, or one from each location.

    The entire point of the "or" is to make sure that you lose one of each card from EITHER location.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CushionRide View Post
    <... stuff about the word 'or' ...>
    Okay so when something asks you to choose, then yes 'or' lets you pick either. (e.g.: "Do you want Milk or Orange Juice?")

    But take the phrase "My keys are in my jacket or on the table". If I tell you that, do you really think you get to choose where my keys are? So there's certainly more than just one way for 'or' to be used.

    Also there's nothing in that m-w definition of 'or' that says you always get to choose. So I wouldn't keep sticking to the claim that your friend "knows the English language better than most lawyers."

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