View Full Version : Is 20 life enough?

06-06-2013, 08:19 AM
Based on spoilers, it seems PVP games are going to escalate VERY quickly. Is 20 life sufficient to get a real game out of it, or is it going to be like Tyson vs. Spinks?

06-06-2013, 08:21 AM
Do you mean PvP games with PvE cards allowed?

I feel like the player vs player formats that allow for PvE cards might need a larger life total. Maybe 30 or 40, but it would be odd.

We don't know how powerful the champion abilities are, yet. Maybe the 20 life won't feel that small.

For example, the warrior can defend against a certain amount of damage each turn.

06-06-2013, 08:24 AM
Well, yes. Based on other games success with 20 life I don't see why not. Also consider matches are likely to be played as a best of three with what I imagine will be a 30 minute timer (per player) for the entire match. Aggro and burn would hate to see the life total come up at all, as any longer of a game favors their opponent.

THOUGH, this is all speculation. I do not know how they will do matches, but I really doubt it would be any different. I also do not know how they plan to run the timer, but again, it would be an odd change if they did it differently. I did not play WOWTCG though, well, not competitively, or really on any level other than, "I'll give it a try."

Really though, 20 life is a nice spot based on the scaling power of actions and troops.

06-06-2013, 08:34 AM
I think Tyrfang was right. I hadnt considered it's the equipment on cards that's putting them out of control. That's not available in normal PVP. Only in the special PVE mod events would the 20 life be a possible issue.

06-06-2013, 08:45 AM
There is a huge discussion on this topic at this thread: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24563

Although the OP brought up scaling ALL numbers, including attack/defense of troops, the question of life totals also came up. Have fun reading!

06-06-2013, 09:15 AM
20 life is fine in Magic. At this point, I haven't seen too many cards that look so aggressive that 20 life would be more of a problem in Hex than in Magic.

06-06-2013, 09:17 AM
If you have more than 20 life, then everyone plays control cause aggro can never kill you.
It's fine


06-06-2013, 01:05 PM
Games on twitch stream have always seemed very fast. Not single one of them have turned to epic battle.

06-06-2013, 01:13 PM
Most matches won't be epic. As soon as one gains an advantage it's generally going to crush the other. The only time this doesn't happen is when they simultaneously build up steam and counter each other.

06-06-2013, 01:33 PM
The decks they have shown maybe can't contain 'epicness' just to not spoil anything. Also diamond seems to boost life points...
It is all how you balance your deck if 20 points will be enough?

06-06-2013, 01:36 PM
We have the beta for finding that exact balance. Don't be surprised to see it raised.

06-06-2013, 01:54 PM
Are they just using starter decks / slightly modified starter decks for their matches shown so far?
If so, that's probably a large part of why there was no "epicness" in them.

06-06-2013, 02:08 PM
We have the beta for finding that exact balance. Don't be surprised to see it raised.

I doubt it. The card game itself has been pretty finalized, from what I can tell, the beta will be more for the client than anything.

06-06-2013, 02:11 PM
20 is fine, there's no reason to change it. So long as everything is balanced well the number isn't really important.

There need to be "fast" decks with a short clock to keep the metagame healthy so that every deck doesn't just turn into "play the best cards regardless of color".

06-06-2013, 02:24 PM
I thought it was a but too little as well, but am warming up to the number. ;)

06-06-2013, 03:08 PM
20 is a fine baseline for standard PvP. I'm sure there will be tons of variants, mostly PvE. Everything is basically balanced around 20 life.

06-06-2013, 03:14 PM
From what I can tell all the cards are balanced around having 20 life. I think they'll rather balance cards to work with the 20 life total instead of changing the life total making all the other balancing they did way worse.

06-20-2013, 06:08 PM
I've seen videos of 30 minute PVP matches with 20 health. If you don't have the strategy to build up a deck to defend the 20 points that you have, then it isn't that you do not have enough health, it is strategy that you are missing

06-20-2013, 06:13 PM
Personally I think 20 is way too short.

I'm hoping to at least break 70 hopefully 80 if my standard of living is decent.

@ the ingame stat... who cares there's balance around card numbers, certain sets can pace slower or faster with individual set balance, and I think that's fine.

They're obviously figuring between 20-30 and apparently think they've got it tuned pretty well at 20

06-20-2013, 06:26 PM
The twitch matches went by so fast because they were basically Agro deck vs. Agro deck. Those matches tend to finish up really fast.

When they ran the Dwarf vs. Diamond deck stream that game felt a bit longer than the others, both of the decks used were more on the controlling side it seemed as well.

I am assuming that they have it balanced at 20 and its very unlikely we'll see a change in health totals.

06-20-2013, 08:48 PM
run a diamond deck for more health, from what I have seen they could quite easily double your hp over the course of the game

06-21-2013, 12:44 AM
run a diamond deck for more health, from what I have seen they could quite easily double your hp over the course of the game
Well, you might gain +20 health overall, and then... die. :-P The thing about the lifegain spells we've seen thus far are that they're card disadvantage for lifegain, and that's rarely worth it. Lifedrain is perfectly fine, and a good ability for a troop, but Soothing Breeze and Eternal Youth just aren't worth playing in 95% of decks.

06-21-2013, 04:34 AM
It's more than enough. MTG has 1000's of cards, some that are insane, but work perfectly well in the 20 life world, even such things as the Eldrazi cards and the Sliver onlaughts, and god, not to mentioned the "blind mans" type cards that flip them all them all over and turn them into something else, remove from game, draw from another game, ofc quite a few of those were "Illegal" in tornaments but there are plenty of cards that are not banned in tournament play, such as the "assembly" artifact decks that build up over time adding any type of coloured mana to then reveal big ass contructs or other huge creatures, usually with annihilator, indestructable, infect or anything else, all balanced around the fact they cost a lot of mana, and don't "work together" that effectively. Surrogate green titan decks too are kinda fun, as are the god decks.

Anyway getting back on topic, im sure as time goes on, different modes (perhaps a two headed giant clone would be nice) allowing 2v2 with 30 life or more than 30 perhaps.

TL;DR 20 is enough for 1v1 and the basic setup of the game, more modes that "require" more health may be added too, but who knows.