PDA

View Full Version : Spectral Lotus + Doppelgadget - Possible exploit



Fireblast
06-09-2013, 06:49 AM
Hi CZE,

What would happen of the Black Tigers created by Spectral Lotus copies (from Doppelgadget) at the end of the game, they vanish or you keep them? (they should vanish)
Because if they don't vanish it'd be easy to go wild west pvp vs a friend and to create tons of tigers to then turn them into lotus.

~

Kami
06-09-2013, 06:55 AM
Nah, I would imagine it'd be like MTGO where you create a 'token' with the abilities. Even if you use it, it still wouldn't be real and would vanish at end of game.

Lord_Snow
06-09-2013, 07:10 AM
Each card has a unique ID, I imagine that cards that are copies in the game will have a different ID.

Fireblast
06-09-2013, 07:49 AM
Each card has a unique ID, I imagine that cards that are copies in the game will have a different ID.

They would have no ID to vanish after the end of the game.
It's just a test case I hope they ran/will run :)

~

jaxsonbateman
06-09-2013, 07:53 AM
I'm sure if something like this slipped through the cracks (I don't think it will, as I don't see much difference between Spectral Lotus-turned-Black Tiger and another card Dopplegadget would have cloned) then as soon as someone notices it in the beta they'd report it. It'd be the smart thing to do - if an exploit did make it through and someone tried to take advantage of it without reporting it, a ban would very well be justified IMO (unless it's an ambiguous exploit like a higher drop rate in a dungeon or something - but this kind of thing would be anything but ambiguous).

keldrin
06-09-2013, 11:54 AM
I think, if you use a dopplegadget on a lotus, then use the lotus you dopplegadgeted, your dopplegadet should permanently change into a black tiger at the end of the game.

IndigoShade
06-09-2013, 11:57 AM
The Dopplegadget doesn't transform into a lotus though. It creates a copy of the lotus, unlike Ebonrock's Reverse Engineering which does transform into the lotus.

MasterN64
06-09-2013, 11:59 AM
Its made into a "token" and doesnt exist so naturally when the game is over it is gone. Just like the booby traps and extra pack raptors at the end of the game.

Gen91
06-09-2013, 01:27 PM
Its made into a "token" and doesnt exist so naturally when the game is over it is gone. Just like the booby traps and extra pack raptors at the end of the game.

Would be a nice gag, if the Booby Traps would stay in your deck after the game is over.
Of course you could take them out after the match and but then then they add add to your collection.

infam0usne0
06-09-2013, 01:35 PM
wait you can turn black tiger into a lotus?

Lord_Snow
06-09-2013, 01:48 PM
wait you can turn black tiger into a lotus?

You can turn 4 Black Tier into one Spectral Lotus

ossuary
06-09-2013, 02:37 PM
You can turn 4 Black Tier into one Spectral Lotus

IF you own a spectral lotus garden. "Regular" players won't have this ability (just to clarify for infam0usene0).

infam0usne0
06-09-2013, 04:20 PM
ah that's great, i was worried i would go out of my mind having 2000000 tigers i couldn't ever get rid of

Turtlewing
06-09-2013, 04:31 PM
Hi CZE,

What would happen of the Black Tigers created by Spectral Lotus copies (from Doppelgadget) at the end of the game, they vanish or you keep them? (they should vanish)
Because if they don't vanish it'd be easy to go wild west pvp vs a friend and to create tons of tigers to then turn them into lotus.

~

They will behave exactly like any other card created by dopplegadget (disappear at the end of the game).
Why would you think otherwise?

Govir
06-09-2013, 06:22 PM
So let me get this straight, the idea is that you'll have a (real) Spectral Lotus in play (which has a cost of 0) and a Doppelgadget (which has a cost of 5), and then you'll copy the Spectral Lotus thus having a "fake" Spectral Lotus which you then use its ability which turns this "fake" Spectral Lotus into a Black Tiger? And your question is if the Black Tiger from the "fake" Spectral Lotus will go away at the end of the game?

I believe the question you have to ask yourself is how would any other card copied by the Doppelgadget behave at the end of the game? As someone else mentioned, each card in Hex is it's own object* (i.e. my Spectral Lotus and your Spectral Lotus do the same thing, but they are not the same card). Therefore a copy made by Doppelgadget would somehow be marked that it is "fake" and when this "fake" card permanently becomes a Black Tiger, it is sill marked as being "fake", thus disappearing at the end of the game.

================================================== ========

*To speak in more technical terms (albiet this is me theorizing how it works), each card will be a separate entity in the database. It will have a card id, which identifies what card it is, but it will also have a Globally Unique ID (or GUID) that will distinguish it from other cards with the same name.

If I was programming the functionality of duplicating cards I'd go about it like this: Each game is a separate environment. When the game is started, the deck is loaded into it, essentially making a copy of the deck separate from the deck in a player's collection. This would almost be a requirement when dealing with game play effects that are "permanent" (because really, that only means for the duration of the current game in most cases). Instead of actually dealing with the deck in a player's collection and having the possibility of accidentally modifying it via a bug, you're dealing with a copy that you can modify to your heart's content. Of course, there are cards that are truly permanent, such as the aforementioned Spectral Lotus. These would need to be handled on a special case by case basis using the GUID of the card to know which card in the collection to modify.

So in my design, here's how Doppelgadget would work on a less complicated card than Spectral Lotus. When Doppelgadget creates a copy of the artifact, it generates a brand new card with a randomly generated GUID and inserts it into the game's separate area. It's never in your collection, so at the end of the game it disappears with the separate area. Now let's look at Spectral Lotus. Doppelgadget still works the same way, creating a new Spectral Lotus with a new GUID. When you use the Spectral Lotus it is Permanently changed into a Black Tiger, but at the end of the game when it tries to modify the card in your collection with that GUID, it won't be able to find it, and therefore you won't get a new Black Tiger.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, but it was fun theorizing even if I am.

================================================== ========

TL;DR - You won't get an extra Black Tiger (also, Spectral Lotus and Black Tiger are both PvE only, so you can't use them in a PvP match).

ossuary
06-09-2013, 06:41 PM
Govir, I want to make a webcomic with you where we discuss overly complicated technical jargon and confuse everyone. It would be epic. :-)

Although it's true lotus is PVE, we will probably be able to use PVE cards in casual /no rules games with our friends. At least I hope so!

Govir
06-09-2013, 06:47 PM
ossuary: I think you're stalking me. You're the first reply to my first two posts. :)

What I find funny is that I just told someone that I normally don't talk much, and yet the first two posts I make here are a few paragraphs each.

ossuary
06-09-2013, 08:01 PM
Bah, I'm not stalking you, we're both just active at the same time.

By the way, you've got a little spot of spinach on your shirt, right there...