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View Full Version : Games over so quickly.



TheSwallowsNest
05-16-2014, 04:04 PM
I am not exactly a TCG expert by any means. I played MTG back in the 90s, and I play SolForge, Hex, and Hearthstone today.

I've played about 10 tournaments (I haven't done really any constructed so I'm not sure if its present there too), I've won one, got eliminated 1st round 4 times, and came in 2nd or 3rd place the other times

One of things that is really bothering me about the draft tournaments that I've been playing is that 90% of the games are over by turn 6.

The health pool is so low that by the time you get 2 or 3 troops out and buff/remove a few others with actions one of the players is going to be nearly dead.


Its disappointing really, because it seems to make the games quick and simple without some of the more interesting late game plays coming out.

I'm I the only one bothered by this or am I missing something?

mudkip
05-16-2014, 04:09 PM
Draft is faster, try sealed if you want a slower limited format.

I've played a good portion of games that go to 10+ rounds. Usually the bad dwarf decks that stack those walls.

AswanJaguar
05-16-2014, 04:10 PM
Players who focus only on their own deck and do not anticipate what their opponents are going to be throwing at them tend to get run over unless they draw very well. This may or may not pertain to you, TheSwallowsNest, but there are certain archetypes that tend to perform better than others and if you want to be a competitive limited player, it would be in your best interest to learn what they are and how to build your own decks to deal with them.

Killah
05-16-2014, 04:11 PM
There is alot of new players in the game and, maybe, thats why u feeling the game fast and easy to play. New players usualy donīt know what to pick and drafts, and pick creatures with high cost. After that they play 50/60 Cards deck with 20 or less resources and a bunch of "do nothing" cards.

If u comparing Solforge when players have 100 life and most of the time u r trading creatures, ofc Hex is faster.

Tinuvas
05-16-2014, 04:15 PM
Its disappointing really, because it seems to make the games quick and simple without some of the more interesting late game plays coming out.

I'm I the only one bothered by this or am I missing something?

I've actually experienced the opposite problem. I rarely draft dwarf (and when I do it's worse), but it seems that fairly often my games will hit a stalemate of sorts that lasts for a period of time before breaking and moving on. Consequently, my timer is my enemy instead of my friend. While I do occasionally feel for my pod mates that are usually waiting on my games to finish, some freaking epic finishes for and against me have been had from them. I love playing Hex.

Xexist
05-16-2014, 05:28 PM
I've actually experienced the opposite problem. I rarely draft dwarf (and when I do it's worse), but it seems that fairly often my games will hit a stalemate of sorts that lasts for a period of time before breaking and moving on. Consequently, my timer is my enemy instead of my friend. While I do occasionally feel for my pod mates that are usually waiting on my games to finish, some freaking epic finishes for and against me have been had from them. I love playing Hex.

Ive had a lot of great long lasting games as well, as well as some great 'stalemates' that go on a number of turns, or I have milled an opponent down to 1 card, and I was at 1 life lol. Fun times.

funktion
05-16-2014, 05:30 PM
Having played probably close to 75 or so drafts (with a pretty respectable win ratio) so far I have to say that "90% of the games are over by turn 6." is definitely not what I am experiencing.

While some games do end extremely abruptly early on, I would say the larger portion of my games (maybe 60%) end somewhere around turn 8-12.

It could be your playstyle, that perhaps you're building decks which either win very early or possibly are vulnerable early which is leading to such quick games. My guess is though that your 90% number is probably a pretty big exaggeration, not necessarily intentionally just that those are the games you're most vividly remembering.

You've played in 10 tournaments and with your win rate I would hazard a guess that maybe you've played 50 or so games? 90% would mean only 5 of those 50 games made it past turn 6 which I find very hard to believe.

Xenavire
05-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Having played probably close to 75 or so drafts (with a pretty respectable win ratio) so far I have to say that "90% of the games are over by turn 6." is definitely not what I am experiencing.

While some games do end extremely abruptly early on, I would say the larger portion of my games (maybe 60%) end somewhere around turn 8-12.

It could be your playstyle, that perhaps you're building decks which either win very early or possibly are vulnerable early which is leading to such quick games. My guess is though that your 90% number is probably a pretty big exaggeration, not necessarily intentionally just that those are the games you're most vividly remembering.

You've played in 10 tournaments and with your win rate I would hazard a guess that maybe you've played 50 or so games? 90% would mean only 5 of those 50 games made it past turn 6 which I find very hard to believe.

75 beta drafts? Do you even sleep? :D

shocker455
05-16-2014, 05:51 PM
i think hes counting alpha lol

I'm kinda wondering how u could even have 30% of your games end on turn 6. Assuming both players play more then 1 card, its very rare to win by turn 6 unless neither player is blocking too... The only deck that really has a chance of winning on/by turn 6 is an orc rush.

I agree with funktion that 8-12 turns is a normal game assuming both sides arn't going extremely defensive decks.

Pheelon
05-16-2014, 05:56 PM
hmm, i am at ~30-35 Beta Drafts and i play 2-3 daily (and more on weekends) 75 most probably includes alpha (unless he plays 24/7)

Miyordon
05-16-2014, 05:59 PM
I have played almost 20 drafts in Beta. 0 in Alpha. I have myself won maybe(!) twice before turn 6, and only one loss before that. Dude got Zoltag out on turn three, I could not keep up. To win the quickly you really need to hit a perfect hand and at the same time the opposition must be playing a bad hand or playing badly.

Gwaer
05-16-2014, 05:59 PM
funktion is the first professional Hex player... All drafts all the time baby! =)

zadies
05-16-2014, 06:02 PM
The real question becomes how many got out of the 1st round... it's very easy to do if you lose the first round most times.

Gwaer
05-16-2014, 06:08 PM
By the time you do picks, and have a 10 minute deck build... you're looking at 20 mins a piece minimum... 30 if you're trying at all. 75 drafts is no very easy even if you lose first round every time. That's still a job =P

funktion
05-16-2014, 07:03 PM
75 beta drafts? Do you even sleep? :D

No, sorry in beta I'm probably just shy of 30 drafts completed.


The real question becomes how many got out of the 1st round... it's very easy to do if you lose the first round most times.

Very few of them ended before the 3rd round.

Xenavire
05-16-2014, 07:31 PM
No, sorry in beta I'm probably just shy of 30 drafts completed.



Very few of them ended before the 3rd round.

30 is still a good number for a pro player in a little over a week. Especially if most made it to the 3rd round, which is very impressive.

I might be sitting at around half that (15ish) if I hadn't come down sick on Monday, and I am 'hardcore' in gaming hours. And about half my drafts end in the first round, which I am working on improving. Just can't resist rare drafting yet since I love constructed. :p

Kersed
05-17-2014, 10:27 AM
I haven't seen games end in less than 6 turns. I have drafted 12 times in beta so far and have 8 1st place finishes and one 2 place. I would say it depends on the play style of people that you play against. I play a control play style so my games usually last over 10 turns.

HeXBazou
05-17-2014, 10:37 AM
for win turn 6 u need weak troops or bad opponent deck / unlucky draw or or and bad start hand of your opponent... If you play weak troops it's really easy of side for beat this, if it's a random fault it's a BO3, and if your opponent is bad u win it's normal.

Sadeyx
05-17-2014, 10:45 AM
Regardless of what anyone else experiences, If YOU find that games don't last 6 turns then YOU should take advantage of that information and build your deck accordingly and win more. I know I would.

FlyingMeatchip
05-17-2014, 11:29 AM
75 Drafts? Racing Infam0usNe0 to 101 drafts? First one there has to give away Australia on stream. GIMMEDATAUSTRALIA

Xexist
05-18-2014, 01:17 PM
30 is still a good number for a pro player in a little over a week. Especially if most made it to the 3rd round, which is very impressive.

I might be sitting at around half that (15ish) if I hadn't come down sick on Monday, and I am 'hardcore' in gaming hours. And about half my drafts end in the first round, which I am working on improving. Just can't resist rare drafting yet since I love constructed. :p

Im probably close to 50 (in beta only)

Xenavire
05-18-2014, 01:18 PM
Im probably close to 50 (in beta only)

That is staggering.

Xexist
05-18-2014, 01:21 PM
That is staggering.

Yeah.. I have a problem. out of close to 50 I have only won 1st twice. Im not very good =/

Baldo
05-18-2014, 01:42 PM
I've played around 15 beta drafts. Most are going over 6 turns, but some are over before then. I am fairly consistently surprised with the amount of removal I am able to draft. I don't think it is being prioritized by other players highly enough at this point. This likely causes my drafts games to go a little longer, spending turns playing removal and neither player achieving an overwhelming board state until later turns.

One draft I did pick rampaging tarasque P1P1, and proceeded to draft 4 ruby pyromancers and a good amount of removal. I was able to win both round 1 games in 6 turns or less (and very little time off the clock as well). But that's been more the exception than the rule.

Someone mentioned this, but if you don't pick an appropriate mana base, you will suffer screw/flood more times than an appropriate mana base. I rarely run into screw/flood with 17 land in a 40 card deck.

Pheelon
05-18-2014, 02:16 PM
hmm, would have to recount - i'm at about 45 drafts atm (maybe up too 5 more if I count some bugged ones).
Some on 2 accounts at once - wich sucked mostly lol especially if your sleepy allready - it can work but atm i would not do that anymore gets too close timer wise ;)

Overall I'm in a pack plus too (counting tickets as 3 packs used so not "free" and primal booster winings as 12 packs i'm atm at +19 packs.

That doesn't count all the packs i openend to get more chests to roll in WoF though ofc /o\

and turn 6 wins are rather rare - yes you might often not get to 6 ressources but thats another matter enirely

Xexist
05-18-2014, 02:20 PM
hmm, would have to recount - i'm at about 45 drafts atm (maybe up too 5 more if I count some bugged ones).
Some on 2 accounts at once - wich sucked mostly lol especially if your sleepy allready - it can work but atm i would not do that anymore gets too close timer wise ;)

Overall I'm in a pack plus too (counting tickets as 3 packs used so not "free" and primal booster winings as 12 packs i'm atm at +19 packs.

That doesn't count all the packs i openend to get more chests to roll in WoF though ofc /o\

and turn 6 wins are rather rare - yes you might often not get to 6 ressources but thats another matter enirely

You should teach me to play better. Im down about 70 packs or so after 45-50 drafts

Pheelon
05-18-2014, 02:37 PM
You should teach me to play better. Im down about 70 packs or so after 45-50 drafts

hmm, well draft theory:

First pick:
is there any Bomb in the booster that can wholesale win the game if you play it right?
e.g.: Gore Feast, Mastery of Time, any low cost Fatty that is 5-6 cost (Hellhound, Angel of Dawm, the Dragons, etc...)
Or a Vulcannon - that card is usually a game winner if your getting it in the 2nd pack either hate draft it or try to change to dwarves.

if so pick that one then try to match the next picks - removel or troops that are important for the deck you want to build first - e.g. for Dwarves you might want to pick a Peterobot higher.

In addition for the first few picks:
Check how many good cards for each shard are in the Booster - is one shard left with few or no good cards if you pick the good one from there? This helps to get better picks in future packs since if you don't give any playable cards in a shard on to the next player they most probably won't choose to draft this color either.

--> for the first few picks try to stay in 1 shard and limit the common usuable cards in the shard in the packs

after that see what you get passed - is there any abundance of cards for a specific shard in the packs?
If so does it fit with the cards you allready drafted?

thats for some basic stuff for starting a draft.

As for the current draft meta:
Wild is underdrafted and is quite often open - Mono Wild or Wild / Sappire is quite good
Dwarves is good but needs some coordination when drafting - its usually Ruby / Sapphire and if you open a Vulcannon its usually game for you.
Mono Blood can be good - especially if you get enough Darkspires add in a Unnatural Transfer to regain some Life lategame

As for other stuff Diamond / Sapphire Flying is usually good
And anything that uses Ruby for the "Can't be blocked" Gem (e.g. Blood with Mazat)

Xexist
05-18-2014, 02:54 PM
Or a Vulcannon - that card is usually a game winner if your getting it in the 2nd pack either hate draft it or try to change to dwarves.

I had 3 vulcannons one game, and still lost lol.

Gwaer
05-18-2014, 02:56 PM
I had 3 vulcannons one game, and still lost lol.
That's rather impressive actually.

Xexist
05-18-2014, 03:04 PM
That's rather impressive actually.

Never drew one. was out round one -_-

Turtlewing
05-19-2014, 07:03 AM
I am not exactly a TCG expert by any means. I played MTG back in the 90s, and I play SolForge, Hex, and Hearthstone today.

I've played about 10 tournaments (I haven't done really any constructed so I'm not sure if its present there too), I've won one, got eliminated 1st round 4 times, and came in 2nd or 3rd place the other times

One of things that is really bothering me about the draft tournaments that I've been playing is that 90% of the games are over by turn 6.

The health pool is so low that by the time you get 2 or 3 troops out and buff/remove a few others with actions one of the players is going to be nearly dead.


Its disappointing really, because it seems to make the games quick and simple without some of the more interesting late game plays coming out.

I'm I the only one bothered by this or am I missing something?

Try drafting Diamond and use Dimmind as your champ. You'll get a lot of staying power.

I don't do much better than you in draft, but using that strategy I see turn 10+ pretty much every game and occasionally have to watch time (sucks to run out of time a few seconds before the attack that would have won you the round)