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jtatta
05-17-2014, 08:26 AM
Good morning, Hexers.

Normally, I wouldn't dare post an article from my website in the general discussion forums but I believe that this one deserves a little more attention that the fansite forums. Please show your support by retweeting this on Twitter as well as Sharing it on Facebook or whatever social media outlet you might frequent. It's important to get the word out that HEX TCG is -not- a MTG clone. Wurtil does an excellent job as usual explaining why he believes this and I, as well as many others, share in his sentiments. Thank you all so much for your time. Link is below.

http://hextcgpro.com/nothing-new-under-entraths-sun/

- John

Axle
05-17-2014, 08:32 AM
Another mistake you made: HEX does not use the term Library in anything. That is one of the misconceptions that Wizards tried to make in their complaint. Might want to edit that in and edit out your use of library in the article.


This guy has a point. No card game calls the deck a library except MTG. I don't think we want an article trying to fix misconception to have a misconception in itself.

Kami
05-17-2014, 08:33 AM
Nice summary.

We just have to hope the legal system sees it this way as well. My concern is that despite all the innovations and differences, it's going to come down to the basics and nitpicking - contrary to common sense.

Axle
05-17-2014, 08:47 AM
You can either be too lazy to fix the use of Library in
"While other TCGs certainly have had their own transformation mechanics, HEX is set far apart from them for a number of reasons. First, it is not restricted to physical medium, which means you can have limitless potential transformations from one card (As opposed to flipping or leveling a card that eventually runs out of cardboard space for the logistics of it all). Second, it again has the permanence attached to it such that, once transformed, that is what that card is now for all intents and purposes, even if it dies, gets returned to your hand, or shuffled into a library. And finally, it is not limited to just cards in play, as Zombie Plague shows by potentially turning troops in an opposing deck into 2A/2D Zombies."

Or you can give Wizards lawyers a case where even when trying to prove the opposite community members make misconceptions. Unlikely, but you might as well prevent a possible scenario with only 10 seconds of your time.

maniza
05-17-2014, 08:55 AM
good detailed article, thanks

AdamAoE2
05-17-2014, 09:03 AM
This is a fantastic article that really shows the differences between the two games in an easy to understand, simple manner.

ossuary
05-17-2014, 09:55 AM
There's another error in the corrections section. In the bushido vs rage item, the article refers to rage increasing "a troops power." It should be "a troop's attack."

Again, let's try very hard not to use the wrong terminology when we're trying to show how they're different. :)

Otherwise, this is an excellent article. Thanks guys!

Sadeyx
05-17-2014, 10:25 AM
Unfortunately the legal battle to ensue wont focus on the differences or how many differences there, they will focus on the similarities.

If you want a non-biased view on the subject as a whole, you need to make a page highlighting the similarities that WotC will likely argue infringe their patents and copyrights. Unfortunately a list of differences, while interesting, wont provide any validity to those arguments.

I point this out so that people don't get their hopes up, seeing a massive list of differences wont make a favorable verdict any more likely. Just sayin

Axle
05-17-2014, 10:38 AM
Unfortunately the legal battle to ensue wont focus on the differences or how many differences there, they will focus on the similarities.

If you want a non-biased view on the subject as a whole, you need to make a page highlighting the similarities that WotC will likely argue infringe their patents and copyrights. Unfortunately a list of differences, while interesting, wont provide any validity to those arguments.

I point this out so that people don't get their hopes up, seeing a massive list of differences wont make a favorable verdict any more likely. Just sayin

so if I make a massive list of similarities between Chess and Chess, we can create a lawsuit? If differences mean nothing then this case is entirely stacked in an unwinnable way.

Gorgol
05-17-2014, 11:13 AM
so if I make a massive list of similarities between Chess and Chess, we can create a lawsuit? If differences mean nothing then this case is entirely stacked in an unwinnable way.

exactly :) Welcome to the US Legal system, please enjoy your stay

Axle
05-17-2014, 11:21 AM
Chess and checkers*

Also the article still isn't fixed with the Library problem and what Ossuary pointed out. Despite both jtatta and Wurtil being on often. Do they really care about HEX or just hits on their website? If they cared and weren't lazy then they would edit this asap.

Yoss
05-17-2014, 11:48 AM
Did you PM them?

jtatta
05-17-2014, 11:49 AM
I'm on mobile right now. I'll fix it in a bit. Want to be our new editor? Your approach could use some work.

Edit: Article is corrected. Thanks Oss for pointing out the error.

Axle
05-17-2014, 11:49 AM
Yes. Ignored.

Yoss
05-17-2014, 11:51 AM
Yes. Ignored.


I'm on mobile right now. I'll fix it in a bit. Want to be our new editor?

:)

Axle
05-17-2014, 11:53 AM
Can wurtil not edit articles himself despite having an account to post them? Well this topic isn't about possible tediousness to editing so I'll end it at that.

ossuary
05-17-2014, 01:02 PM
While you're ending it at that, why don't you head over to dictionary.com and look up "tact." ;)

John: happy to help. Seriously good read. :)

kuvasza
05-17-2014, 01:31 PM
The visual that keeps sticking in my mind is

MtG: phantasmal image: cost = 1 blue, 1 colorless
Hex: tactical genius: cost = 1 sapphire (threshold), cost = 2

MtG: I have 7 plains, 1 island on the board, I can cast 1 phantasmal image.
<Image: MtGO board,. 1 lonely phantasmal image>

Hex: I have 7 diamond, 1 sapphire on the board, I can cast 4 tactical geniuses + any artifact that costs <= 4 originally.
<Image: HexCCG board, a small army of tactical geniuses and whatever artifacts I had in hand that cost 4 or less>

The plaintiffs made a deal out of the similarities in color, but the surface resemblance is misleading.

It should be possible to put together visuals that tear apart the similarities (forcefully rebut the arguments).

KrisP
05-17-2014, 02:24 PM
There are a lot more similarities than differences. Most of the points of similarity that Wizards made are obviously correct. Hex's only defence can be that these similarities did not cost Wizards revenue as they are very common mechanics that are widely used. It's all going to depend on how strong Wizards' patents are over very basic concepts.

Yoss
05-17-2014, 03:02 PM
It's all going to depend on how strong Wizards' patents are over very basic concepts.

This.

On the plus side, the patent looks like a load of garbage to me (far, far too broad to actually mean anything), but somehow Hasbro got someone at the PTO to sign the stupid thing. Furthermore, people have been saying that the patent expires this year anyway. Even further, I've never heard of patents actually working with video games, which Hex is (and MTG is not). In other words, MTGO is an online representation of MTG (complete with physical redemption linkage), while Hex is just a video game, NOT an online representation of a physical game.

IANAL

Zomnivore
05-17-2014, 03:42 PM
Thanks Jtatta once again a pinnacle of the community.

Axle
05-18-2014, 05:30 AM
This.

On the plus side, the patent looks like a load of garbage to me (far, far too broad to actually mean anything), but somehow Hasbro got someone at the PTO to sign the stupid thing. Furthermore, people have been saying that the patent expires this year anyway. Even further, I've never heard of patents actually working with video games, which Hex is (and MTG is not). In other words, MTGO is an online representation of MTG (complete with physical redemption linkage), while Hex is just a video game, NOT an online representation of a physical game.

IANAL

http://www.patentarcade.com/2010/07/case-analysis-sega-v-fox.html
http://www.sticktwiddlers.com/2012/08/09/why-namco-games-are-the-only-titles-with-mini-game-loading-screens/

Also when someone posted this in the magic subreddit it backfired. Everyone is going nuts on HEX. What can you do. They're invested into their game too so the bias goes for them just as it does for us.

DuroNL
05-18-2014, 09:06 AM
Was a nice read, and a confirmation of what i always thought of Hex... the many differences are really plain in sight...

lets hope an old Jury can be convinced...

Thepsis
05-18-2014, 01:32 PM
good article thx!