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Rajinsu
12-01-2014, 12:13 AM
So now thats its dec are we going to see arena come out soon.Or is it going to be pushed ?
Any one have any updated info on arena plz post what u know.If any mods could give any info on where it stands that would be great some kind of update on it.
Been waiting as mush as i can doing other stuff lol but dame it i want to play arena lol hope it comes out soon XD

poizonous
12-01-2014, 12:25 AM
best bet is early January i would guess

nicosharp
12-01-2014, 12:28 AM
December 45th 2014+1

bootlace
12-01-2014, 12:30 AM
Due to the recently identified bugs and the delay of set 2, Phenteo mentioned this could delay the initially December scheduled Arena. January seems like a good bet if there are no further delays for set 2.

Mejis
12-01-2014, 01:23 AM
Yeah I think Jan at the earliest unfortunately, although I'd love to be proved wrong :)

Ditsch
12-01-2014, 05:04 AM
I would also like a updated release date on the pve content called arena , it feels a bit wrong to tell all the free to play people they should wait till december an it is december. :)

WolfCrypt
12-01-2014, 08:00 AM
Well they can't contemplate major bugs popping up.. I hope its very early Jan or Dec if were lucky it might be out by christmas

MajinRaiko
12-01-2014, 08:04 AM
Considering how slow the development team is, it would probably will take them till March or some crap.


Seriously, do these guys have like 0 coding experience? I've seen teams smaller do the same in half the time. Hell I've seen some dude doing it as a hobby design ygopro/devpro and code a new set of cards in like a week.

Viziroth
12-01-2014, 08:36 AM
I've seen teams smaller do the same in half the time. Hell I've seen some dude doing it as a hobby design ygopro/devpro and code a new set of cards in like a week. Was it also an online game with tons of players on a dedicated server where they had to account for network issues? Did they create new mechanics or just use ones from another game? Did they have transform, revert, and permanent stats? Do they also code an AI and working on a PVE experience along side the PVP one? Do they need to worry about 128 man tournaments? Do they need to worry about an economy? Are they doing legal battles with Hasbro? Are they working on equipment for champions? Do they have a ton of unique mechanics, any one of which can fuck up the rest of the cards in the set? Are they implementing double backs that track all the stats of each individual card? Does their game fully run the mechanics, or are the players expected to do some of the work(like cockatrice)? Did that new set introduce any new mechanics or features, or just use ones already in the game? Did they make the game from the ground up or just modify someone else's code?
quote block because for somereason line breaks aren't working... Not only is this the first game this company is making, a lot of the features in it are actually quite demanding from a coding perspective. Just because you've seen something similar, doesn't mean it's the same thing. Unless you work in a tech field, it can be hard to understand how somethings that seem simple are actually really complicated. Working on a website, for example, sometimes it can take hours to get a certain part of the site to align correctly with the other elements on the page, while changing the entire layout to work around that part may only take a few minutes. http://xkcd.com/1425/ I was working on a small game project earlier this year, it took me all of 30 minutes to get my enemies moving around and attacking the player, but it took me 3 days to figure out a bug with one of my player spells that caused it to expand forever and not fade out when it was supposed to.

MajinRaiko
12-01-2014, 08:39 AM
Was it also an online game with tons of players on a dedicated server where they had to account for network issues? Did they create new mechanics or just use ones from another game? Did they have transform, revert, and permanent stats? Do they also code an AI and working on a PVE experience along side the PVP one? Do they need to worry about 128 man tournaments? Do they need to worry about an economy? Are they doing legal battles with Hasbro? Are they working on equipment for champions? Do they have a ton of unique mechanics, any one of which can fuck up the rest of the cards in the set? Are they implementing double backs that track all the stats of each individual card? Does their game fully run the mechanics, or are the players expected to do some of the work(like cockatrice)? Did that new set introduce any new mechanics or features, or just use ones already in the game? Did they make the game from the ground up or just modify someone else's code? Not only is this the first game this company is making, a lot of the features in it are actually quite demanding from a coding perspective. Just because you've seen something similar, doesn't mean it's the same thing. Unless you work in a tech field, it can be hard to understand how somethings that seem simple are actually really complicated. Working on a website, for example, sometimes it can take hours to get a certain part of the site to align correctly with the other elements on the page, while changing the entire layout to work around that part may only take a few minutes. http://xkcd.com/1425/ I was working on a small game project earlier this year, it took me all of 30 minutes to get my enemies moving around and attacking the player, but it took me 3 days to figure out a bug with one of my player spells that caused it to expand forever and not fade out when it was supposed to.


Yes. Yes it was. And yes they did.

The only reason I'm still willing to give the devs a chance for Hex is that now that they've got set 1 (and I guess set 2 finally out of the way), then maybe from now on they can reuse code from other cards and modify them slightly in order to make them work with new cards. But even taking that into consideration, it is still unbelievably slow. I might have to come back in another year to see if they've done anything.

ossuary
12-01-2014, 08:52 AM
I might have to come back in another year to see if they've done anything.

Please do. In particular, I'm looking forward to the "not being here" part of that year.

WolfCrypt
12-01-2014, 08:57 AM
I think stead of whining we should discuss what we hope to see in Arena besides what we are already aware of. I hope its easy.. I'm kinda meh at the game so far but I not invested much time due to pve not around.

Xenavire
12-01-2014, 08:58 AM
Please do. In particular, I'm looking forward to the "not being here" part of that year.

He might be unpleasant today, but no need for you to be unpleasant too. Ignore him. :p

Axle
12-01-2014, 08:58 AM
sigh


You can't compare it to ygopro because

1) They copied many things from the ygo video games which made things easier.
2) Yugioh cards are SIMPLE. There is no such thing as a yugioh card that does nothing the game has ever seen before because they are all copies of previous cards with a little card text changed. They have this luxury because there are already 5000 cards. New scripts do not need to be made for each individual card as they can go back to old ones. HEX does not have this luxury with only around 400 card made.
3) An extension of yugioh cards being simple..These are effects cards have
Draw, Search, Discard, Summon from (x), Deal Damage, Gain Life, Gain ATK/DEF, being untargetable, being indestructible, banish cards (aka void), destroy cards, negate cards. Repeating myself, because the effects are so simple and based off the past 5000 cards, it is much easier
4) Yugioh sets are SMALL. With only around 80 new cards per set, it is a lot less to handle. Especially when 99% of them borrow off of old terms.
5) A new mechanic is only added to yugioh ONCE PER 4 YEARS. That's the only time they have to make something like tunneling. This would be Synchro, XYZ and Pendulum.
6) Ygopro is waaaaaaaaaaaaay older than HEX.
7) Ygopro doesn't have to make their own art. They don't have to make their own card text. They don't have to do their own balance. They don't have to run a community, economy etc etc etc. All they have to do is make a working simulator. The rest is taken from Konami because it is a free game and Konami isn't going after them with the C&D.

Not to give any discredit to the creator, but ygopro is nowhere near HEX in scale. You might want to use Hearthstone as an example, but they are much simpler than HEX as well. While card effects are digital, they don't interact with each other. Most bugs come from cards interacting but Hearthstone doesn't have things like Quick Actions which could fizzle a card. Cards always resolve properly. Hearthstone also is only releasing 1 set per year from the looks of it.

plaguedealer
12-01-2014, 09:08 AM
Maybe a video of what arena looks like might help alleviate alot of the concerns. However, I will say that pve is the most important thing to get new players, which this game desperately needs. If it is delayed a month for it to be dead on so be it.

Rajinsu
12-01-2014, 10:28 AM
I think hex needs to make a official update on where arena stands as of right now something lol a vid or pic would be nice just something lol

MajinRaiko
12-01-2014, 10:42 AM
sigh


You can't compare it to ygopro because

1) They copied many things from the ygo video games which made things easier.
2) Yugioh cards are SIMPLE. There is no such thing as a yugioh card that does nothing the game has ever seen before because they are all copies of previous cards with a little card text changed. They have this luxury because there are already 5000 cards. New scripts do not need to be made for each individual card as they can go back to old ones. HEX does not have this luxury with only around 400 card made.
3) An extension of yugioh cards being simple..These are effects cards have
Draw, Search, Discard, Summon from (x), Deal Damage, Gain Life, Gain ATK/DEF, being untargetable, being indestructible, banish cards (aka void), destroy cards, negate cards. Repeating myself, because the effects are so simple and based off the past 5000 cards, it is much easier
4) Yugioh sets are SMALL. With only around 80 new cards per set, it is a lot less to handle. Especially when 99% of them borrow off of old terms.
5) A new mechanic is only added to yugioh ONCE PER 4 YEARS. That's the only time they have to make something like tunneling. This would be Synchro, XYZ and Pendulum.
6) Ygopro is waaaaaaaaaaaaay older than HEX.
7) Ygopro doesn't have to make their own art. They don't have to make their own card text. They don't have to do their own balance. They don't have to run a community, economy etc etc etc. All they have to do is make a working simulator. The rest is taken from Konami because it is a free game and Konami isn't going after them with the C&D.

Not to give any discredit to the creator, but ygopro is nowhere near HEX in scale. You might want to use Hearthstone as an example, but they are much simpler than HEX as well. While card effects are digital, they don't interact with each other. Most bugs come from cards interacting but Hearthstone doesn't have things like Quick Actions which could fizzle a card. Cards always resolve properly. Hearthstone also is only releasing 1 set per year from the looks of it.


To be fair, Hex doesn't make their own art really either. A lot of that work is differed to hired artists so it's not really that big of a deal.

It may be older than Hex but it certainly didn't have 2.2 million backing it up right away, plus a dev team, plus people constantly sinking money into it. And yet even now they can still pump out new cards with new mechanics for a set in less than a week. Hell, I bet WE the community could do add in new cards if we really wanted to faster. If a community of gamers can solve protein chain combinations for cells in a week when scientists couldn't do it for decades, I'm pretty sure a community of gamers can code a few cards faster. Hell You might as well just GIVE us the rights to the game at this point since we're the ones who funded the damn thing anyways.



Also. Infinity Wars and Sol Forge. Small ass teams, little funding in comparison to Hex, and yet somehow has been able to get more done.


How the hell does Hex screw up so much? Even the simple things as BEING ABLE TO VIEW A CARD glitches out. They've pushed back the Set 1 FOUR MONTHS from the original projected date. Keep in mind they are talking about having a new one every 3-4 months. That means effectively they doubled their time or more on set 2 and still can't get it right.



I honestly think maybe the folks in charge should seriously reconsider their choice of employment. Perhaps the programmers they have now just aren't experienced enough or committed enough to be doing this. Perhaps they need better, more experienced programmers to lead the teams. Then again, they kept talking about how great their AI programmer was and guess what? AI sucks.




Oh and by the way, all that shit you said about yugioh? Yeah wrong. Games like MTG are the things where nothing changes. Hell some cards are blatant copy pastes of past ones. Yugioh actually does change stuff and works withe the mechanics that they have and creates new ones. There's a fucking style where cards bounce from field to grave to deck to hand in literally one effect (madolche bitches).

And when Yugioh introduced pendulums, an entire new thing, they still got that coded in faster than Hex. And that's an entire game change with nothing to copy off of. So once again, that whole 'oh ygopro/devpor just copied and pasted the code' is bullshit actually.




How's it feel to have literally every line of what you just said proven wrong? Next time think before you try to start this crap. And if you wanna talk about copy and paste, Hex is the biggest, most blatant copy and paste ever. The only thing that saves them is that Hex actually makes tweaks and improvements on the source material, so it's effectively MTG 2.0. But it's still a damn copy and paste nonetheless, especially by your own logic.

Axle
12-01-2014, 11:37 AM
You might want to calm down before you get yourself banned. You're probably teetering that way from every single post you've been making in many different threads. Constantly a barrage of negative emotions against the developers on borderline harassment. Telling them to fire people? There's criticism and then there's what you're saying.

On the subject of YGO, I'm a YCS level player and have been playing since the game was created. Of course I know more than you on the subject. However just like I have been before, you're too into this that you won't actually listen to the other side. Pendulum is one of the new mechanics introduced every 4 years. Madolche is not a new mechanic. If Madolche was a new mechanic then so would a new card that said "Draw 1 card, discard 1 card, deal 2 damage". It's just a combination of previous text.

RCDv57
12-01-2014, 12:11 PM
I am not familiar with Ygopro, but I am going to guess that Hex is a much more ambitious project.
(That doesn't mean Ygopro is not good, or a worthy use of your time. It just simply does not attempt to do as many things as Hex wants to do.)

I also think it is a bit wierd at how slow things have been moving.
From what I understand the hex team is fairly small, and a many of them are card design specialists.
Which doesn't leave much room for many tech guys.

While many of the tech guys are veterans from the game industry, they are also being tasked with building a custom in house game engine.
From what i understand this is a very difficult thing to do, as most developers like to work with already well established engines.

They should, and I am pretty certain that they are in the process of adding people to the tech side of things.
But this is a huge, big and incredibly ambitious project, and integrating new members to the team takes time.
Especially with an in house engine.

Kiworrior
12-01-2014, 11:49 PM
Nah, Hex is built using the Unity game engine, not an in-house one. Though that doesn't mean that the project they are working on is not huge in scale. MajinRaiko is obviously not a programmer, or at least not an experienced one, since pretty much everything he has said about the project in comparing it to others has been totally wrong.

The fact of the matter is that there is no digital TCG (that I know of) that comes anywhere near to the complexity of Hex. The closest would be Hearthstone, and it is not really that close. Though Hearthstone development also isn't moving very fast.

Cernz
12-01-2014, 11:58 PM
The fact of the matter is that there is no digital TCG (that I know of) that comes anywhere near to the complexity of Hex. The closest would be Hearthstone,....

o_O :)

Kiworrior
12-02-2014, 12:53 AM
o_O :)

That is to say, it would be, if it were a TCG.

IruuL
12-02-2014, 08:56 AM
Nah, Hex is built using the Unity game engine, not an in-house one. Though that doesn't mean that the project they are working on is not huge in scale. MajinRaiko is obviously not a programmer, or at least not an experienced one, since pretty much everything he has said about the project in comparing it to others has been totally wrong.

The fact of the matter is that there is no digital TCG (that I know of) that comes anywhere near to the complexity of Hex. The closest would be Hearthstone, and it is not really that close. Though Hearthstone development also isn't moving very fast.
No, the closest is MTGO. On that note, whenever MTGO is about to release a new set they have an invited test server set up where players have access to all the cards and free drafts to iron out the bugs. I wonder if Hex will do the same.

Axle
12-02-2014, 08:57 AM
They have said that it is very likely they will implement before set 3.

asdf2000
12-02-2014, 09:09 AM
this majin guy is just so mad and biased.
half the stuff he says has a grain of truth to it, though
but the other half is just not remotely true and is annoying
so it's hard to take anything he says seriously

WolfCrypt
12-02-2014, 10:35 AM
this majin guy is just so mad and biased.
half the stuff he says has a grain of truth to it, though
but the other half is just not remotely true and is annoying
so it's hard to take anything he says seriously

He's clearly a troll

Thrawn
12-02-2014, 11:08 AM
If I were a betting man I would go with Arena being announced again for mid January and then delayed into February before it releases.

Mokog
12-02-2014, 11:38 AM
To be fair, Hex doesn't make their own art really either. A lot of that work is differed to hired artists so it's not really that big of a deal.

It may be older than Hex but it certainly didn't have 2.2 million backing it up right away, plus a dev team, plus people constantly sinking money into it. And yet even now they can still pump out new cards with new mechanics for a set in less than a week. Hell, I bet WE the community could do add in new cards if we really wanted to faster. If a community of gamers can solve protein chain combinations for cells in a week when scientists couldn't do it for decades, I'm pretty sure a community of gamers can code a few cards faster. Hell You might as well just GIVE us the rights to the game at this point since we're the ones who funded the damn thing anyways.



Also. Infinity Wars and Sol Forge. Small ass teams, little funding in comparison to Hex, and yet somehow has been able to get more done.


How the hell does Hex screw up so much? Even the simple things as BEING ABLE TO VIEW A CARD glitches out. They've pushed back the Set 1 FOUR MONTHS from the original projected date. Keep in mind they are talking about having a new one every 3-4 months. That means effectively they doubled their time or more on set 2 and still can't get it right.



I honestly think maybe the folks in charge should seriously reconsider their choice of employment. Perhaps the programmers they have now just aren't experienced enough or committed enough to be doing this. Perhaps they need better, more experienced programmers to lead the teams. Then again, they kept talking about how great their AI programmer was and guess what? AI sucks.




Oh and by the way, all that shit you said about yugioh? Yeah wrong. Games like MTG are the things where nothing changes. Hell some cards are blatant copy pastes of past ones. Yugioh actually does change stuff and works withe the mechanics that they have and creates new ones. There's a fucking style where cards bounce from field to grave to deck to hand in literally one effect (madolche bitches).

And when Yugioh introduced pendulums, an entire new thing, they still got that coded in faster than Hex. And that's an entire game change with nothing to copy off of. So once again, that whole 'oh ygopro/devpor just copied and pasted the code' is bullshit actually.


How's it feel to have literally every line of what you just said proven wrong? Next time think before you try to start this crap. And if you wanna talk about copy and paste, Hex is the biggest, most blatant copy and paste ever. The only thing that saves them is that Hex actually makes tweaks and improvements on the source material, so it's effectively MTG 2.0. But it's still a damn copy and paste nonetheless, especially by your own logic.

Majin, there are critical points you can bring up about Hex but you are late to that party. The community is significantly critical on the Hex teams missteps as well as cheerful about their progress. The veterans here have perspective. Your post above shows that you do not on these subjects. To your points:

The art procurement process is slow for original designs, review then implementation. Yugioh has already done this work for it's previous cards and existing files are simpler to adapt, which is why a 5000 card database of art is faster to apply to an online Yugioh game.

2.2 million dollars is a lot of money to an individual but to a company or a project the scope is vastly different. 2.2 million is used for many uses in a large project, like paying the new artists, bringing on programmers, sustaining development, paying overhead. With out direct line item information in the form of an actual audit, you would not have the perspective to understand how Hex is using that money. If you are actually capable of that from the released information, go work for wall street. They always can use bright financial analysts. Just watch out for the wolves.

Gamer sourced projects - Open sourcing is a great trend in the software industry for established types of tools and uses. Generally open sourced large projects with specific artistic direction do not succeed commercially. Even if we grant the point 2000 professional and amature programmers concurrently working on a project can produce results we do not guarantee quality, just existence. The balance of release schedule to quality is tough. Blizzard's history can attest to that. Where is our open source competitive RTS to surpass starcraft?

Generally we are disappointed with the delay of set 2 from August to December. I do not have specifics to why the delay was done, nor do I have the expertise to fix it. If you do, submit your resume. They can use all star programmers and code development professionals.

Calling for members of their team to be indiscriminately fired with no direct insight on the project is dumb. It is pretentious and short sighted as well. If you want that opinion to be taken seriously provide your direct researchable experience in coding project management and commercially successful projects.

Yu-gi-oh and MTG use the reprint method because they came from the paper TCG business model. It helps those companies remain profitable and ease the design burden for large bloated card pools. One day Hex will have this problem and that is a post for another day.

You have proven nothing wrong. I see dreadfully short sighted sets of opinions and that continue to ruin your reputation with this community. I can not take you seriously with the information you have presented, the actions you call for nor the dilapidated reasoning you attempt to use.

I just realized I could have been drafting in the time I spent responding to your non-sense.

ossuary
12-02-2014, 12:09 PM
I just realized I could have been drafting in the time I spent responding to your non-sense.

Preach. :)