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Loregoyle
01-20-2016, 04:57 PM
Much like the meteor Hex that crashed into Entrath, our PVE Campaign will soon be making its impact on your world.

With a main story to explore (as well as a multitude of side quests) and, for the first time, characters you can actually interact with, places you can visit, and things to kill (so many things to kill!) I am hoping the release of Chronicles of Entrath Chapter One will revive the Lore section of the forums. Part of the slowdown here has been my fault, I've had my head buried in campaign work for months, which left me with little time to interact with you Hex maniacs.

But now I can come up for air a bit (before diving back down for Campaign Chapter 2), I hope to get the discussion going again.

Once you guys get to play, I'd like to get your feedback on story stuff. What characters you connect with, what stories you enjoyed, and what didn't quite work. Is there too much dialogue? Not enough? I've played so many video games with crappy writing, I really tried to make our in-game dialogue entertaining, informative, and balanced. I also have to give a shout-out to Jacob, one of our game designers who stepped in and helped out when the sheer volume of writing got a bit overwhelming.

Our big hope with the campaign is that it will tempt many new players to try out the Hex playground, which should also help juice the discussions here.

On a personal note, this is a gratifying moment for me. I've been with Hex since the project was little more than slides in a PowerPoint file. Of the entire Hex team, only Cory, Ben Stoll, and Kyle Heuer have been here longer than me. This is the biggest creative project I've ever worked on and I am quite proud of what we've made.

As they say in PVP chat, GL and HF! See you in Entrath!

AswanJaguar
01-20-2016, 05:53 PM
Based solely on the lore snippets on the main site, I'm very much looking forward to exploring your Entrath, Loregoyle. I'll be happy to post my thoughts here once we can dive into it!

Audens
01-20-2016, 07:07 PM
I'll be happy to post my thoughts here once we can dive into it!

I'd be happy to post my thoughts now. Please provide developer server access so that I can do so. Thanks in advance!

WolfCrypt
01-20-2016, 10:53 PM
Lore you can count on me to obsess over lore :D

Erukk
01-21-2016, 02:19 AM
Even if it makes me sound like a Debby Downer, I've seen too many forums turn a bit toxic after a release, so it's always a nice thing to always state before such a release and opinions and reviews roll in on is, "Please keep feedback constructive and civil".

(It's ok to not like something, hence the devs asking for your feedback, but when it comes to negative feedback "It was bad" or "It sucked" doesn't really give them much to work with when it comes to fixing the problem. So please explain why you didn't like something, even if it's something simply like "I thought this part was too short or too long" or "I didn't fully understand this part". Any and all critiques helps the devs hone in on the players' needs so they may better adjust and put out a better product at the end of the day.)

Anway....:rolleyes:

I do look forward to finally being able to play PvE, and i'll be sure to leave my feedback along the way. Even with the small amount we've been seeing, it looks like it's shaping up to be a great game.

On a bit of an off topic, as the lore guy, is there a possibility in the future of the addition of a codex to hold all the lore bits? I've always been a sucker for a codex, especially since they can add a lot of depth to a world without having to build content around each thing, and it's a nice place to browse all the unlocked lore bits without having to scavenge around everywhere in case you forgot something. Plus, the possibility of getting and unlocking the Argent and Underworld's perspective on certain matters or places would always be great.

Gryffe
01-21-2016, 03:49 AM
I also have to give a shout-out to Jacob, one of our game designers who stepped in and helped out when the sheer volume of writing got a bit overwhelming.

There's no such things like overwriting !

Anyway, since I'll create a Shin'Hare character, I'm curious to learn more about the runic ears. It intrigued me the first time I saw a card featuring one and I'm always on the watch for more lore about that mutation now.

Loregoyle
01-21-2016, 10:26 AM
On a bit of an off topic, as the lore guy, is there a possibility in the future of the addition of a codex to hold all the lore bits?

Yes. This is something we want to have in-game.

WolfCrypt
01-21-2016, 10:38 AM
Yes. This is something we want to have in-game.

I'm dying to know. Do you plan on creating Legend backgrounds and we meet like Bun'jitsu or Cressida in Campaign?

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 09:41 PM
I am a freedom lover, so I can guarantee right now that the number of choices that matter are too few... More choices! As for the rest, I can't see myself complaining, the lore is usually top notch.

Would you recommend we play the updated tutorial? I swear someone mentioned something about that (I thought Cory) and I got the feeling it was far different now.

WolfCrypt
01-21-2016, 10:48 PM
I am a freedom lover, so I can guarantee right now that the number of choices that matter are too few... More choices! As for the rest, I can't see myself complaining, the lore is usually top notch.

Would you recommend we play the updated tutorial? I swear someone mentioned something about that (I thought Cory) and I got the feeling it was far different now.

I just did it you beat the AI with a Tarrasque

Zophie
01-21-2016, 11:11 PM
Would you recommend we play the updated tutorial? I swear someone mentioned something about that (I thought Cory) and I got the feeling it was far different now.

Yes

WolfCrypt
01-22-2016, 03:04 AM
I've discovered major majorr uber lore/plot aspect. Ruby Apocalypse.

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 06:53 AM
I just did it you beat the AI with a Tarrasque

The implication was that we get a brand spanking new tutorial with the PvE patch...

Erukk
01-22-2016, 06:59 AM
Yes. This is something we want to have in-game.

I'm doubly excited for future pve updates now. :D

Yoss
01-22-2016, 06:12 PM
Lore codex sounds great, especially if it only contains things your account has discovered (no spoilers)!

incitfulmonk21
01-24-2016, 06:02 AM
So there has been a bit of an ongoing debate about the necrotic in our guild. The lore says they have a Hive mind yet many seem to posses individuality even to the point of possible vanity. Also, it was said the necrotic don't contain the memories of the previous owner of the body yet Lixil infers she does.

I am really looking forward to exploring this story more deeply for sure so I hope chapter 1 contains more lore about the race itself as opposed to just the human - necrotic rivalry.

TL;DR Only write more about the Necrotic!

Xenavire
01-24-2016, 09:16 AM
So there has been a bit of an ongoing debate about the necrotic in our guild. The lore says they have a Hive mind yet many seem to posses individuality even to the point of possible vanity. Also, it was said the necrotic don't contain the memories of the previous owner of the body yet Lixil infers she does.

I am really looking forward to exploring this story more deeply for sure so I hope chapter 1 contains more lore about the race itself as opposed to just the human - necrotic rivalry.

TL;DR Only write more about the Necrotic!

Based on what I have seen, they have pawns (the hive mind) and the leadership (more powerful, with greater understanding and control, potentially giving them insight into their hosts past.)

Gryffe
01-27-2016, 12:39 PM
I'm too busy playing the game to actually comment it :p

However, I have to say it : the beginning of the campaign for the Shin'Hare PC made me frown. I mean, that's a very... blunt start ? The PC is wandering alone for no particular reason and just so happen to stumble across an assignement. Somehow, they managed to have a name (something your deserved as a high-born or for great prowess) and impress senior military for their skill despite their apparent lack of any background.

It's... well, quite disappointing. I was expecting to have a fully fleshed out insight of the transition from a litter to a full-fledged soldier in the Shin'Hare society and all I got was a "here, we magically introduce you, the player" instead.

WolfCrypt
01-27-2016, 12:51 PM
I'm too busy playing the game to actually comment it :p

However, I have to say it : the beginning of the campaign for the Shin'Hare PC made me frown. I mean, that's a very... blunt start ? The PC is wandering alone for no particular reason and just so happen to stumble across an assignement. Somehow, they managed to have a name (something your deserved as a high-born or for great prowess) and impress senior military for their skill despite their apparent lack of any background.

It's... well, quite disappointing. I was expecting to have a fully fleshed out insight of the transition from a litter to a full-fledged soldier in the Shin'Hare society and all I got was a "here, we magically introduce you, the player" instead.

It's quite possible that the PC in Campaign is a isolated figure of each race for newbies sake.

bwarner
01-29-2016, 02:21 PM
It does work much better in the context of Necrotic, since you are newly Awakened, and therefore didn't really exist until that point. I can see how it would be harder to have an origin point for other races.

Yoss
01-29-2016, 11:55 PM
For Loregoyle, there are quite a few bits of useful Lore feedback buried in here, starting I think around page 2:

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=47346

NoahBuddy
01-30-2016, 04:41 PM
hi loregoyle. thank you for your and the teams hard work. i think the dialog was good outside of some dialog choices shared between the different races. i enjoyed the characterizations of the npc's. it some how felt like more than just words and pictures on a screen. one encounter that intrigued me was mi'losh and the gall. his look, accent, and small backstory really made me want to hear more about him and his people.

since you asked what did or didn't work for us lore wise i would like to know more about clerics and faith based power. my d+d experience has me always thinking of clerics as having faith based magic. is this the same in hex or is it all in the hexing gems. do clerics draw power from gods/primals? do they have a natural connection to blood and wild power? could you please clarify this? the cleric class has always been one of my least favorite but hex has put such a different spin on it with some of the races that i find myself drawn to them.

i feel that the shin'hare and vennen get deserved attention for being original creations but i would like to give you props for the dwarfs and elves. i have been reading fantasy lit for 30+ years and when i read about dwarfs and elves in a story i usually roll my eyes but you have taken these tired archetypes and made them interesting to me. the dwarfs are almost wholly different and that is awesome. the elves are mainly cosmetically different but i still find them the most interesting portrayal of this archetype i have read in some time.i really liked the dialog in the elf starting area. it highlighted to me what elves in hex are all about, living epicly.

the last thing from me is a suggestion. i think there should be race specific art for the blessings that go in your deck from the cleric's pray ability. the sunny art for blessing does not seem to fit a vennen, necrotic, shin'hare, orc or dwarf deck.

Voormas
01-31-2016, 04:21 AM
Spoilers; I really love that Wiktor was pulling the old Nigerian Prince / Spanish Prisoner Scam :)

Erukk
01-31-2016, 05:34 AM
Somehow, they managed to have a name (something your deserved as a high-born or for great prowess) and impress senior military for their skill despite their apparent lack of any background.

It's... well, quite disappointing. I was expecting to have a fully fleshed out insight of the transition from a litter to a full-fledged soldier in the Shin'Hare society and all I got was a "here, we magically introduce you, the player" instead.

As for the name part, per the Uzume article, all Shin'hare receive a name if they survive to six months of age.

I still need to do the Shin'hare opening though, but if the player was born as either a peasant or a common shock troop, I wouldn't be all that surprised if a high ranking official could just go, "You! You're coming with me on a mission of importance. Suit up. We leave in 10." Peasants or low rankers don't really have the right to say no.

Brjuntinaar
02-02-2016, 12:22 AM
Hi Loregoyle, to be honest, I'd like even more volume of lore! If there is any way to make more of the lore stuff completely optional, so that new players don't feel flooded / overwhelmed, but those who are interested can read away, I would be all for that.

Overall, I thought the writing was very good, but the world building was what really shined. Entrath is both cohesive and believable, which is a pretty huge accomplishment when you compare it to 99% of video games, even those sometimes praised for their world / story. The atmosphere, the interactions between the races, the primals, etc., they all just feel natural. It's good stuff.

I have two pieces of negative feedback to give, both of which are very minor. Firstly, some of the dialogue just seems too casual / slangy. If the characters in Hex are going to use slang, it should be some unique slang of their own, not ontemporary American slang. Second, I didn't feel like some of the Elf dialogue was believable. I was trying to picture the elf saying something like "prithee", and it ended up just being too silly. It's not all of the elf dialogue by any means...just some of it is over the top, and it breaks immersion.

Flairina
02-02-2016, 08:42 AM
My thoughts: Overall, good! Dialogue is enjoyable (at least the first time through), if a bit casual in some places. Didn't make me laugh, but it made me smile. The dungeons have nice themes to them, and it's overall very engrossing.

That being said. The dialogue being almost the same for every race takes away from things somewhat. It means every character, regardless of race, eventually defaults to the "same" character and/or variations thereof, which makes things kind of boring. It also doesn't always fit with the attitudes displayed at their "base" world, particularly for the elves as their speech is pretty recognizable, so it's jarring when they start talking like everyone else. On that subject, the elf dialogue does sometimes come off as just silly and eye-rolley, Shakespearian influence or not. Not sure what's to be done about that.

I still question why everyone hates the necrotic so much. I felt BAD doing King Lodegan's tomb, the king comes off as an ass and you're just kowtowing to him... some reason. Makes more sense if you're human, and maybe some if you're coyotle with reverence for spirits, but if you're an elf or orc? Less so. And some of the necrotic seem pretty darn reasonable. I felt bad about it before, but ESPECIALLY cutting down the Midnight Shepard guy, who literally tried to explain to you the circumstances behind why necrotic even ended up fighting the ardent to begin with, and who doesn't even attack you- you just get irrationally angry and decide "you gotta die". I can kind of get the humans caring about the corpse puppeteering thing, but why do the OTHER races care so strongly? This is one of the problems here with the identical dialogue, it makes the ardent especially come off as HUGE jerks.

(My feelings on the necrotic and their right to live can go in some other post, so I'll stop here.)

Gryffe
02-02-2016, 11:15 AM
Honestly, humans are just jerks in this game. They're so full of themselves it's disgusting. Even as you save some knights from an angry mob of zombies, all they give as a thank is "I can't believed we were saved by a shin'hare". Their holier-than-thou attitude is running on my nerves.

Funnily enough, while Cryptozoic keeps selling us the Ardent as the "good guys" and the Underworld as the "bad guys" (just check at the release trailer of Chronicles of Entrath), we still have no solid proof that Necrotic have spiteful intentions, while humans use every occasion they have to show to the world that they're just a bunch of racists.

gjaustin
02-02-2016, 03:45 PM
The Underworld are still clearly the bad guys. The Shin'hare are vicious, while the Vennen and Dwarves are just flat out evil.

Flairina
02-02-2016, 03:46 PM
Honestly, humans are just jerks in this game. They're so full of themselves it's disgusting. Even as you save some knights from an angry mob of zombies, all they give as a thank is "I can't believed we were saved by a shin'hare". Their holier-than-thou attitude is running on my nerves.

Funnily enough, while Cryptozoic keeps selling us the Ardent as the "good guys" and the Underworld as the "bad guys" (just check at the release trailer of Chronicles of Entrath), we still have no solid proof that Necrotic have spiteful intentions, while humans use every occasion they have to show to the world that they're just a bunch of racists.

We know for a fact they didn't attack first, and just wanted to live and do their thing without being attacked for walking around in dead bodies. Or at least, so we've heard said by every necrotic so far. Maybe it's not true, but it's VERY believable given the way the humans act. They don't ever actually state the necrotic have evil INTENTIONS, just "they're evil", because of the corpse puppeteering, which is just so offensive to each and every human for some reason that it makes the necrotic evil by default. We have yet to hear a human complain about a necrotic for a reason besides "You're wearing a human corpse! That's just EVIL!" and "you're a necrotic". Of all the underworld races, they seem the most hated lorewise, yet the least reasonable to hate.

Voormas
02-02-2016, 08:38 PM
The necrotic I took to be slightly psychopathic; I mean they're alien minds from outer-space so that makes some sense, but their lack of empathy / etc makes doing evil but logical things very easy for them (like allying with + organizing with deadly efficiency a group of demented religious fanatics, hardcore racists, and others bent on literally destroying the world) - they certainly can't be the "good guys" even if their motivations aren't "evil"

Orcs of course are evil on purpose - they keep slaves and revel in murder, anyone who would ally with them can hold no claim over being the "good guys" imo (of course, when you are fighting a war you aren't trying to be the good guy...)

Aradon
02-03-2016, 12:59 PM
Necrotic have in every case been malicious. They're very willing to lie and manipulate, especially through this "Oh we're not actually bad, just misunderstood" propaganda. In the Novel, there is a necrotic who feigns curiousity and pacifism, giving a character the hope that maybe dipolmatic relations could be established. Until she backstabbed and ran.

They are also deliberately provocative, saying that any old corpse would do, but they like royalty because it bothers the humans so much. They are a hive mind with some focused goal, seemingly an entity of the Hex Comet. Until we're told otherwise, my working theory is that something inside Hex or something *of* Hex has evil intentions for the exploitations of Entrath.

Flairina
02-03-2016, 02:37 PM
Necrotic have in every case been malicious. They're very willing to lie and manipulate, especially through this "Oh we're not actually bad, just misunderstood" propaganda. In the Novel, there is a necrotic who feigns curiousity and pacifism, giving a character the hope that maybe dipolmatic relations could be established. Until she backstabbed and ran.

They are also deliberately provocative, saying that any old corpse would do, but they like royalty because it bothers the humans so much. They are a hive mind with some focused goal, seemingly an entity of the Hex Comet. Until we're told otherwise, my working theory is that something inside Hex or something *of* Hex has evil intentions for the exploitations of Entrath.

True that they choose royal corpses to annoy humans now, but initially it was just because the royal tomb was where Erasmus was led to create the first necrotic (which just makes practical sense for a species that needs to inhabit corpses, since royal corpses are most likely to be well preserved, not to mention they aren't stuck beneath 6 feet of dirt). Then the humans got angry, the necrotic got angry back, the cycle of hatred naturally occurs, and so of course they act angrily towards humans now. Anyone would be when the immediate reaction to their presence is "die, scum". I wouldn't say it's all that different from many real situations between different races/groups.

As for said character, I dunno if I buy that. Let's remember the context here. She may genuinely have BEEN curious, that was the whole point of her listening/learning for the hive mind, wasn't it? But William talking of peace doesn't mean she wasn't still, ya' know, a prisoner. It escapes me why they were even taking her with them- I think William made a plea for her life or something- but of course she backstabbed them. William isn't in charge, and the only place he could possibly take her- his human city- ends up with her dead anyways. Most prisoners would do the same when being led somewhere by captors and offered the opportunity to escape, regardless of how one guy- with no actual power over the feelings of the rest of humanity, mind- says. Doesn't help that both sides are fairly controlled, the necrotic at least partially by their not-hive mind, the humans by their ridiculous levels of nationalism and dedication to their rulers, including ones long since gone who will NEVER change their minds. Both sides are long past the point of peace- I'm just saying the humans started it, for really dumb reasons, and are way more hateful about it than the necrotic tend to be (compare their dialogue trees in the campaign- it's REALLY evident).

Not that the idea that something in Hex or Hex itself is "evil" is necessarily wrong. That's most likely what the writers are going for, honestly. Which is kind of boring, but eh.

Turtlewing
02-04-2016, 04:15 PM
Honestly, humans are just jerks in this game. They're so full of themselves it's disgusting. Even as you save some knights from an angry mob of zombies, all they give as a thank is "I can't believed we were saved by a shin'hare". Their holier-than-thou attitude is running on my nerves.

Funnily enough, while Cryptozoic keeps selling us the Ardent as the "good guys" and the Underworld as the "bad guys" (just check at the release trailer of Chronicles of Entrath), we still have no solid proof that Necrotic have spiteful intentions, while humans use every occasion they have to show to the world that they're just a bunch of racists.

Also the frequency with which humans bring up their loyalty to the king makes it feel like they're lying about it or possibly playing a variant of the "penis game".

And that when you ask what the secret agenda is in the necrotic tutorial you're told it's "to exist" implies that even if there is a sinister agenda not all necrotic know about it.

I kind of think the goal is more a grey vs grey morality. The Ardent alliance is less evil than the Underworld in that no one in the Ardent actually wants to blow up the planet (looking at you dwarves), but they don't seem to have needed to start the war with the Necrotic at all and the orks are sort of barely skimming by on the evilomiter with their slavery and serving a bloodthristy mountain primal (seriously it's literally a mountain that drinks blood). On the other hand the Necrotic are largely victims of the human's paranoia, but they also took several of the most recklessly destructive races on Enthrath and organized them into an even more dangerous alliance.

Loregoyle
02-09-2016, 03:33 PM
Spoilers; I really love that Wiktor was pulling the old Nigerian Prince / Spanish Prisoner Scam :)

I'm happy that at least one person got it. :)

Yoss
02-10-2016, 11:43 AM
Moving this comment from a thread of different topic:


My main issue is the ardent and underworld play-through is nearly identical. Its makes ardent vs underworld choice feel completely unimportant. And that's counter to my understanding of AvU being a central driver of story and lore.

This. I haven't made it very far with any of my Underworld guys yet, but it seems that after the tutorial there are very few differences in story between the two and that just seems wrong. To a fair extent I can understand why each faction's champions would have nearly identical story, but it makes no sense to me why all champions, even mortal enemies, would have identical plot.

Salverus
02-10-2016, 01:40 PM
how exactly was the crypt of the thorn knight put into the story?
because right now you can skip the fight entirely with no drawbacks, while the person you met earlier was talking about a secret pathway in the crypt.

(Also regarding the codex, I do not know if I can name other games here, but warframe also has a codex in game, which is excellent in my opinion. Initially you can only see a black silhouette with no information, then if you spot it once the picture is added and if you spot it several tines you get the full details as well. So it is also a small extra challenge to try and fully complete the codex, which can then be used to quickly look up something. )

edit: another thing I noticed is that on the Devonshire dungeon map, wiktor is jumping on a bed with red sheets, while on the avatar of wiktor he is jumping on a bed with purple sheets. Does that mean he killed more important people as well ?

Turtlewing
02-11-2016, 11:52 AM
Necrotic have in every case been malicious. They're very willing to lie and manipulate, especially through this "Oh we're not actually bad, just misunderstood" propaganda. In the Novel, there is a necrotic who feigns curiousity and pacifism, giving a character the hope that maybe dipolmatic relations could be established. Until she backstabbed and ran.

Except that she was a prisoner, was rescued, and tried to talk the other necrotic out of the subsequent attack.

William's stated goal for keeping her alive was interrogation not establishing relations. His apparent 'real' goal was that he wanted to get to know his cousin, and he repeatedly stated she'd be killed when her usefulness ended (admittedly to appease his allies who wanted her dean right now).

Would you pass up a rescue from the custody of and enemy soldier who was constantly trying to use you to replace a dead family member you happen to look like because they offered to interrogate you before they kill you? I sure wouldn't.