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Tazelbain
04-06-2016, 06:35 PM
The steam page said available on the 12th for a little while. Now it just says "April 2016".

wolzarg
04-06-2016, 06:46 PM
The steam page said available on the 12th for a little while. Now it just says "April 2016".
Interesting

magic_gazz
04-06-2016, 06:49 PM
I wonder if that means it will be pushed forward or back. Probably back as that tends to be the case.

05K4R
04-06-2016, 07:21 PM
The steam page said available on the 12th for a little while. Now it just says "April 2016".

The 12th is present in the source code of the page, but there is a javascript snippet that formats the date to only include year and month. If it showed the full date before, it could be a case of javascript acting up in some way.

frychikn
04-06-2016, 08:17 PM
is there really only gonna be 1 pve zone on steam release? that might actually hurt the game tbh

Mejis
04-06-2016, 08:26 PM
The 12th is present in the source code of the page, but there is a javascript snippet that formats the date to only include year and month. If it showed the full date before, it could be a case of javascript acting up in some way.

Nice catch. Had a look myself. Might use this for future games too to see if there are hidden actual release dates, hehe.

Mejis
04-06-2016, 08:28 PM
is there really only gonna be 1 pve zone on steam release? that might actually hurt the game tbh

Seems so. I think so long as there's a clear "AZ2 is coming soon^TM! In the meantime, here's what else you can be doing in HEX and what's incoming immediately" message then I'd like to hope people will understand and see that it's an ever-evolving game deserving of their attention.

GobBluth
04-06-2016, 10:40 PM
Hope it does well.

WolfCrypt
04-06-2016, 10:54 PM
Saying we have Raids and dozen of dungeons is painfully horribly inaccurate one Hex has told us point blank they have no idea in hell how long raid would take and mentioned the rough drafts were kinda horrible. And we have what 5 or 6 dungeons?

GobBluth
04-06-2016, 10:56 PM
Saying we have Raids and dozen of dungeons is painfully horribly inaccurate one Hex has told us point blank they have no idea in hell how long raid would take and mentioned the rough drafts were kinda horrible. And we have what 5 or 6 dungeons?

Sorry, my last post was incorrect. I looked up Hex Steam on Google and found what must be an old version of Hex's steam page. It was outdated. Maybe can get it removed.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/hextcg

WolfCrypt
04-06-2016, 10:58 PM
I was taking your word for it I hope Steaming it will help make it popular but I'm not going to bother linking my account with it to write a review I don't think my mom(who owns pc) would be too happy if I do that.

wolzarg
04-06-2016, 11:06 PM
I'm confused why would your mom care?

WolfCrypt
04-06-2016, 11:07 PM
I broke the last three pcs downloading games to high heaven

Cernz
04-06-2016, 11:12 PM
you should avoid xxx download sites wolf ;)

WolfCrypt
04-06-2016, 11:14 PM
Also I see no point anyway

Mejis
04-06-2016, 11:28 PM
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/hextcg

Who actually maintains that page? It's inaccurate to say the least.
E.g. "The Double Back makes each card an individual collectible. Cards gain experience and have individual achievements that allow you to unlock extended art and foil versions."

Can anyone here update that page with accurate up-to-date info?

Motjida
04-07-2016, 12:29 AM
Who actually maintains that page? It's inaccurate to say the least.
E.g. "The Double Back makes each card an individual collectible. Cards gain experience and have individual achievements that allow you to unlock extended art and foil versions."

Can anyone here update that page with accurate up-to-date info?

That is not an official HEX Ent page, it's a community group, a fan page if you will.
Administrators seem to be Lovecore and Grinn, so you can try and contact them.

Mejis
04-07-2016, 12:33 AM
That is not an official HEX Ent page, it's a community group, a fan page if you will.
Administrators seem to be Lovecore and Grinn, so you can try and contact them.

Aha, gotcha. Well, might see if I can get them to update it.

Ertzi
04-07-2016, 03:26 AM
I fear it is too soon to introduce HEX to Steam. I think we needed more PvE content before this. I would have waited for more KS-promised features being in the game. I have a strong belief that HEX will be a success in the long-term, but I have apprehensions about the possible backlash from the Steam community at this early stage. I really hope I am wrong. Heck, this is almost like introducing my own baby to the world at this point. :D

Please, let people get it.

Sixlooter
04-07-2016, 03:40 AM
I fear it is too soon to introduce HEX to Steam. I think we needed more PvE content before this. I would have waited for more KS-promised features being in the game. I have a strong belief that HEX will be a success in the long-term, but I have apprehensions about the possible backlash from the Steam community at this early stage. I really hope I am wrong. Heck, this is almost like introducing my own baby to the world at this point. :D

Please, let people get it.

It is all about expectation management. I think a majority of the f2p kids there are the completely wrong target group, but even the fraction that would be a nice add to the HEX community might be very substantial for the overall success.

I hope they advertise and promote it in the right way. So that the right people test it and write reviews and the rest does not even bother to download.

Goliath764
04-07-2016, 04:34 AM
How about selling the game for like 10$ (or an option to do so, i don,t know how steam works) and give them a bunch of stuff with it (like a gauthlet ticket, a bunch of PVE packs, 1 VIP ticket) something to let them sink into it.

I think some sort of bundle with VIP could work. Like 3 months VIP + some goodies, and make it available to all players including the existing ones just to be fair.


Don't we get the benefit of steam stats if we launch from steam (do you have to link to count as a "steam" player)? That would help the game move up in the "Most Popular" sorting and be more visible which is the entire point.

Yes, and I think this is very important and should be one of the incentive for players with a Steam account to try and play it on Steam. Steamchart is a popular website/tracker to gauge the popularity of a game and one of my Chrome plugin integrate that info onto Steam page as a helper to assist me on whether I want to buy a game. Potential players will go on Steamchart to see how popular is this game and they are more likely to try it out if they see a tons of players. No one wants to be bothered with a game that has no player. Again, they might not know that there is an outside client and thought the Steam player count indicate the whole player base, so it is best to just get that number up to be safe for first impression.


MMO means Massivly Multiplayer Online. When you play a 100+ tournemant, it's massivly multiplayer, and it's online because we are not around a same table for sure... so MMO it is.
It's just not MMORPG yet

Game genres are more "label"(to attract the right group of customer or to give the correct perception) than "taken literally". I mean, every game is RPG, because you roleplay a character in every single one of them, RPG or not, be it Ryu in Street Fighter, a soldier in ARMA 3 and so on but only those games with a certain systems and elements are "RPG". Going by the same concept, this is not MMO at all because we don't have any element of a MMOG, aside from maybe the chat room and auction house.

Zophie
04-07-2016, 11:31 AM
If someone wants to write a review for a game they have to have it installed via Steam and have to have played it at least 5 min...

The way steam works, in most cases, all you have to do is install the game and run it, you don't have to actually log into Hex or link your accounts or anything to accumulate "played time" to qualify for writing reviews or whatnot. I've done that for some other online games/MMOs that were not on steam initially but later became available there.

In fact there are also some other third party tools that will allow you to trick steam into thinking you're running a game without even installing them at all, some people do that for farming steam trading cards, but as always use third party tools like that at your own risk.


All that being said, I'll definitely be linking my account, I'd much rather do my plat purchases through my steam wallet.

Ertzi
04-08-2016, 04:41 AM
I would love an official word about which is better for HEX, linking or not linking with Steam. Which one would they prefer? I would absolutely choose based on that. Now I have no idea what to do. Steam would be convenient though...

Gregangel
04-08-2016, 04:43 AM
I would love an official word about which is better for HEX, linking or not linking with Steam. Which one would they prefer? I would absolutely choose based on that. Now I have no idea what to do. Steam would be convenient though...

here :
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=48606&page=23&p=565143&viewfull=1#post565143

fido_one
04-08-2016, 04:48 AM
I would love an official word about which is better for HEX, linking or not linking with Steam. Which one would they prefer? I would absolutely choose based on that. Now I have no idea what to do. Steam would be convenient though...

Chark officially said 'whatever players prefer', and I would bet dimes to donuts it's because of their Steam agreement that they can't be more specific.

I've been wiff-waffling on the matter. I'll see if the payment gateway is still up via the gameforge site which could allow having our cake and eating it to, but I just got screwed out of a 200 gift card from PacSun I bought last year for Hex that the payment system never took (though it lists it), so I'll probably go over to Steam and wash my hands of the current payment system which has always been problematic.

I like the extra layer of community built right into the store front, and I love that friends I make via Hex can roll over to other games in my library. ...and I don't have to worry about payment headaches or red herrings.

Ertzi
04-08-2016, 05:01 AM
Chark officially said 'whatever players prefer', and I would bet dimes to donuts it's because of their Steam agreement that they can't be more specific.

I've been wiff-waffling on the matter. I'll see if the payment gateway is still up via the gameforge site which could allow having our cake and eating it to, but I just got screwed out of a 200 gift card from PacSun I bought last year for Hex that the payment system never took (though it lists it), so I'll probably go over to Steam and wash my hands of the current payment system which has always been problematic.

I like the extra layer of community built right into the store front, and I love that friends I make via Hex can roll over to other games in my library. ...and I don't have to worry about payment headaches or red herrings.

You make good points, and I agree with the friend roll-over effect. I would love my friends to see how much time I spend in a weird game called 'HEX' all the time :D. I have never had any issues with the current payment structure though, so that alone is not reason enough for me to jump on Steam, because I am lazy and not doing anything is a compelling option. I guess we need more info. If the plat rates change for example, I will make a decision then.

darkwonders
04-08-2016, 05:06 AM
Chark officially said 'whatever players prefer', and I would bet dimes to donuts it's because of their Steam agreement that they can't be more specific.

I've been wiff-waffling on the matter. I'll see if the payment gateway is still up via the gameforge site which could allow having our cake and eating it to, but I just got screwed out of a 200 gift card from PacSun I bought last year for Hex that the payment system never took (though it lists it), so I'll probably go over to Steam and wash my hands of the current payment system which has always been problematic.

I like the extra layer of community built right into the store front, and I love that friends I make via Hex can roll over to other games in my library. ...and I don't have to worry about payment headaches or red herrings.

I'm probably going for steam as it's a lot easier to pay that way. People know what steam cards are for gifts, plus most stores carry steam cards, so if I have a GC for a particular store, that can go directly to Steam, which I can spend on Hex.

Also, if Hex manages to find a way to integrate our collection into the steam community store, we could seriously easily be cashing out here. Albeit, you're stuck with Steam money, but you still are able to buy more things for it and it'll be a more secure way to sell your cards than a third party that isn't linked to the game.

bootlace
04-08-2016, 05:07 AM
I believe Steam gets a 30% cut, that's quite a bit. It really seems like a bad idea to release on Steam before Set 4 release (I would imagine waiting at least a week would be sensible, also allows for server management and squashing of bugs in case there's some that get through). You put in 9 months of development work and finally get to cash in, and then Valve gets a 30% cut of all of that for 0 days worth of work, even profiting from your existing playerbase they had no part in building..

By the way I believe that if you buy through Steam then not only does Gameforge get a cut but also Valve - so don't think you're cutting out Gameforge and replacing it with Steam/Valve so it's alright.

I also don't think it would be a good idea to offer anything exclusive to Steam users whether it be features or something collectible because encouraging players to switch to Steam really seems like a bad idea. Steam is great for people who would never have played it if it wasn't on the platform, but I won't make the switch for some silly 'background auto-updating thing'...happens what, every few months?. The best would be if we can still buy platinum through Gameforge's website regardless of how client is set up - that would solve most issues.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 05:26 AM
I believe Steam gets a 30% cut, that's quite a bit. It really seems like a bad idea to release on Steam before Set 4 release (I would imagine waiting at least a week would be sensible, also allows for server management and squashing of bugs in case there's some that get through). You put in 9 months of development work and finally get to cash in, and then Valve gets a 30% cut of all of that for 0 days worth of work, even profiting from your existing playerbase they had no part in building..

By the way I believe that if you buy through Steam then not only does Gameforge get a cut but also Valve - so don't think you're cutting out Gameforge and replacing it with Steam/Valve so it's alright.

I also don't think it would be a good idea to offer anything exclusive to Steam users whether it be features or something collectible because encouraging players to switch to Steam really seems like a bad idea. Steam is great for people who would never have played it if it wasn't on the platform, but I won't make the switch for some silly 'background auto-updating thing'...happens what, every few months?. The best would be if we can still buy platinum through Gameforge's website regardless of how client is set up - that would solve most issues.

This is one of the few times I disagree with you Bootlace (other than the timing of putting it on Steam, it seems a bit desperate to be honest).

If our collection hit the market-place, I could think of nothing better. Let's face it, we're never going to get a cash-out any time soon that is within the ToS, and if there is a platform that card value is bound to beyond Hex, I would pick Steam 9 out of 10 times. I think this is our best chance of getting secondary market value anytime soon, if at all.

From our perspective, a 30% cut is a lot. Beyond the concerns stated of timing, it will, with a bit of luck and proper marketing, balloon the player base well above the loss of that figure due to play and pack purchases.

But consider this: it will offset a variety of other things, maybe not to the tune of 30%, but enough to make a solid dent over a period of time. A set of community tools that will augment the game, some of which I'm sure they want but don't have the time or manpower to create. Something like steam will provide those tools and provide a better set as Valve has spent a good deal to refine them. So take a few percentage points off for that.

A better payment system. Regardless of anyone's opinion of Gameforge's current system, it definitely isn't sustainable for scaling. How difficult is it to get a really good payment system in there? It would be a lot of money. A ton. Though over a decade old, I used to do that sort of thing back in the day for global companies and it involves a lot of money to make it work, a ton of money if you want to make a really, really good payment system that doesn't shaft a certain region.

Steam has the best payment system out there. So take a bigger percentage, conservatively still in the single digit (but could easily hit double digit) for the magic wand of 'make all your payment issues go away.' as doing it by themselves would be considerable dev time, higher fees on the back-end, and the mistakes along the way will alienate a certain percentage of new players.

Marketing. You can't find a better marketing platform. Hex could spend millions upon millions of bucks and still not have the continual marketing equivalent of a good steam presence. You see what your friends are playing; 'my friend Johnny that I used to play Infinity Wars with just logged in 253 hours on this Hex game, let me check the store front page HOLY SHIT there are dragons there!', etc. etc. So take a couple of more percentage things off the 30.

So on and so forth. This is akin to what I was doing in my career in academia as a CIO; consistently asking 'what business are we in?' We used to be in the e-mail business, and it sucked. We sucked at e-mail. Totally sucked. Then Microsoft and Google came around and offered it to us with billions of dollars invested in the platform and it was all gain for all parties involved. We could focus more on the business we were in (chaos) than the e-mail systems. Same with the 'cloud' revolution once certain things matured. God, it was so great to get off of traditional back-up systems and just ship our crap to AWS. No more tape jukeboxes, and I could take those highly-skilled/paid employees off of those systems and put them onto projects that were more exciting to them.

I see Steam as the same way. 30 percent is a lot. But they get a ton for it, and can focus more on the game than all of these secondary systems which will help it grow. Like you, I question the timing, but that aside, I'm not worried about whatever cuts they take.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 05:53 AM
So one of the things I think HexEnt will be missing out is Steam sales. There is a lot of data from people how their games went sky-high when it went on a steam sale. (Though I think that effect has been dampened since Steam stopped timing exclusivity, they feel less like bargain hunting now)

Like HexEnt, I think discounting packs would be a disaster, and I also think that draft ticket combos and other things are also a bit of a mess.

How about a revamped VIP, however? A discount for a year during a steam sale? VIP used to have this value and it was disbanded due to people taking advantage of it over multiple accounts. I wonder if Steam has something built in to reduce that and makes discounting VIP yearly a thing again? I wouldn't mind seeing that go on sale every once in a while to keep people interested.

If not that, than special sleeves or character portraits for PvE, a.k.a. the Path of Exile model, where anything you buy at a discount just makes things prettier or more stylized rather than affect play in the game.

I think if Hex is going to Steam it would be a shame to miss the marketing focal points of the sales.

Metronomy
04-08-2016, 05:55 AM
I'm a little bit late to the party to respond to this topic but..

I wrote about this in the thread about marketing. I said it all depends on the details on what Steam/Valve demands from its contract partners. If it is indeed 30% of all revenue than this seems a little high in my eyes. It could be totaly worth it though but in my eyes its easy to overestimate the effect a release on Steam has. There are too many great games that just fell flat on Steam. What especialy bothers me in this context is this:



We believe that it will increase our acquisition of players. We are happy with the percentage of players who currently monetize and want to increase the funnel of overall players.

We believe that the alternative methods to acquire players (other marketing efforts) will cost us more than steam's cut on a lifetime value of a paying player.

I realy hope that this doesnt mean that other marketing efforts will not be done. Maybe a little clarification could help here. Steam is no substitute for a marketing strategy.

Now the other thing that bothers me is the timing. Bootlace just explained it. Why not wait till some time after Set 4 ? Does the Steam release now delay Set 4 even further ? Those questions are valid in my eyes. If Set 4 basically comes right with the Steam release or shortly after than any major issues with Set 4 (major bugs etc.) could be desastrous. I simply dont see why this needed to happen at this time.

As to the question wether or not existing players should link their account to Steam. I would answer this way: If you regulary buy platinum dont. If you do it very rarely or not at all then do. Steamcharts is a thing. For the first time we will be able to see real numbers. From the december 28th 2015 "A message from Cory" mainpage post we got the number of 120,000 monthly users ("Our little community is getting bigger, with over 700,000 downloads of the game and 120,000 monthly active users."). I remain skeptical about this number but with Steam we will be able to see.

Last but not least we dont have a ladder/ranking system yet. People who try out the game and then see that there isnt some ranking system/ladder at all like they are used to in so many games could be turned away ("this game is fully released and doesnt even have a ladder"). People often are over critical on Steam (especialy when the game is tagged as out of beta/early access).

That all being said..being on Steam is a good thing. I am not sure if its worth it and I realy dont get the timing but new players will come and this is always good.

bootlace
04-08-2016, 05:58 AM
Well some of those things you mention (like payment system) Gameforge needs to get on top of because that's exactly why HxE partnered with them, now paying a second entity for those things the first couldn't do properly seems bad. Other things like 'community tools' seem like a double edged sword - do you really want that stuff on a third party site you have no control of. There's already many people predicting uninformed poor reviews will leave a permanent scar on the game.

Look I have no problem paying for platforms their fair share in the revenue brought to a business, but in this case they'll be taking every single existing user and getting a cut off them too...which is unheard of in the affiliate or commission business.

There's also the fact that for small businesses/startups cashflow carries a ton of importance. If you are crippling the money coming in at the very start, how do you aggressively grow? With this move they're essentially putting all their eggs in the basket of Steam single handedly growing them because otherwise they'll be too hamstrung with loyalty payments to do anything themselves. Yea they could actually be making less money at the end of this than they were before if things go wrong.

What upsets me if anything is they didn't even try ANY marketing themselves and have immediately gone with this nuclear option. Where was the YouTube/Twitch personality courting? Where was the smart viral marketing tactics that got them that huge KS funding? Can't they pay a large gaming site to review their game? Why didn't they pay a few grand and at least promote their 100k tourney as a featured stream? Why didn't you make this Steam move BEFORE the 100k so at least that investment would have had some return?

Anyways I hope this all works out and Steam ends up being the huge catalyst that gets this game to where we all want it to get to.

Metronomy
04-08-2016, 06:11 AM
Wow Bootlace....you and me seem to be on the exact same page. This happens rarely for me since often enough I get critizised for being too criticial with HXE and just being overly dramatic. We both want the game to be a big success and thats why we raise questions. I gues I can leave you handling the concerns since I can agree with basically everything you said here^^.

One short info regarding contacting gaming sites. I tried to contact gamestar about writing a review. Gamestar is easily the single biggest gaming site for german speaking audiences (including austria and switzerland). A review would indeed help big time with german audiences (well...as long as it is not too bad of course but thats not something I can control^^).

I wrote to one editor who wrote a short preview article some time ago. This was on the 29th of february. He answered me that a review was already being done. So far no review has been released though. So a week ago I wrote another editor who I was told was responsible for doing that particular review. No response from him. Now I have contacted the first editor again basically asking if the review was dropped or if it is still coming. That was two days ago. No response so far. I hope I am wrong with my hunch that they decided to not do a review after all. I also said Hex was coming to Steam. If Steam means those gaming sites cover Hex and do reviews than I gues it was worht it. I will stay on the topic with gamestar and will give an update in time.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 06:24 AM
What upsets me if anything is they didn't even try ANY marketing themselves and have immediately gone with this nuclear option. Where was the YouTube/Twitch personality courting? Where was the smart viral marketing tactics that got them that huge KS funding? Can't they pay a large gaming site to review their game? Why didn't they pay a few grand and at least promote their 100k tourney as a featured stream? Why didn't you make this Steam move BEFORE the 100k so at least that investment would have had some return?


Yeah, I definitely agree the timing seems desperate. It came out of nowhere, is against a lot of the tone HexEnt has been putting out for a while, and the game is not nearly feature rich enough. I have theories why marketing hasn't hit and I won't bore anyone with them as they are just theories, but my guess is they're at a point where they need to shoot for the moon. They have 50 employees and I don't think that includes the 12 or so employed by Gameforge. That's a lot of money per year, regardless of how each of those fifty get paid. My guess is they are staring at a quickly approaching wall of sustainability and workforce costs.

Set 4 will get old players back, and will get a certain number of new players. The patch addressed a lot of stuff that would have really damaged a Steam launch. Their reasoning could be, 'if it's on Steam, we could get a wee bit of momentum, and than a splash of the old running back in to make things look busy with set 4, we could get a ball rolling on a new player base.' Steam could be the fastest way to avoid the wall they are approaching before they have to look at cutting back features or employees.

I mean they are a factor of what, four or five times behind schedule. I'm sure the legal battle wasn't cheap. So if any of this is right, and who could blame them if they are up against a wall, going to Steam is the best business choice for them. Not what we envisioned, but hell, I never thought we'd see this good of a game when I signed up, so it's all good.

If these are some of the reasons, there are plenty of developers who don't mind stating so and I think it generally helps the game and growth of that game rather than hinder growth. HexEnt does not seem like that type of company however, they definitely seem like the type to say 'we're super happy with everything and we're doing AWESOME!' and hide the challenges. That's fine, they are more than transparent on other items most companies would obfuscate.

All in all, concerns aside, HexEnt is an indie shop, they are new, they have a ton of challenges just inherent in trying something as unique in this. They'll have to make a hard call or ten during the development of this game. Going to Steam at this point in time seems like one of them, and hats off for making what I am assuming was a hard decision.

bootlace
04-08-2016, 06:35 AM
snip

Yea, that's certainly a scenario that's been on the back of my mind but I guess I never really wanted to acknowledge it. Hopefully things are not that dire and if they are, this Steam release gets them out of it. It's just crazy to me that such a quality and groundbreaking game with good reviews would even get in such a bad spot, but I guess this is the reality of modern game development.

Metronomy
04-08-2016, 06:43 AM
Well...steamcharts will tell how the state of the game realy is. I remember one TCG that got good reviews and decided to go on stream and then went downhill from there on. That game is Infinity Wars. Now..I agree that you cannot compare it to HEX. I do think Hex is the better game. But it should be a warning that a Steam release on its own rarely is good enough. IW has a "very positive" rating (82% positive ratings) and yet it had 96 players playing the game on average over the last 30 days.

http://steamcharts.com/app/257730

Lets hope Hex will go in the opposite direction on player numbers after its steam release. Still..and again...a Steam release is no substitute for a marketing strategy.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 06:43 AM
Yea, that's certainly a scenario that's been on the back of my mind but I guess I never really wanted to acknowledge it. Hopefully things are not that dire and if they are, this Steam release gets them out of it. It's just crazy to me that such a quality and groundbreaking game with good reviews would even get in such a bad spot, but I guess this is the reality of modern game development.

Yeah, I originally thought Hex was going to be my first review on Steam and found out that I had reviewed 'Before the Echo', which is a fantastic 5 dollar RPG rhythm game released years ago. I mean REALLY good. Hardly anyone bought it, and it was highlighted on the Steam front page for a bit. A lot of this seems to be luck based beyond having a good product.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 06:45 AM
Well...steamcharts will tell how the state of the game realy is. I remember one TCG that got good reviews and decided to go on stream and then went downhill from there on. That game is Infinity Wars. Now..I agree that you cannot compare it to HEX. I do think Hex is the better game. But it should be a warning that a Steam release on its own rarely is good enough. IW has a "very positive" rating (82% positive ratings) and yet it had 96 players playing the game on average over the last 30 days.

http://steamcharts.com/app/257730

Lets hope Hex will go in the opposite direction on player numbers after its steam release. Still..and again...a Steam release is no substitute for a marketing strategy.

I wasn't familiar with Steamcharts, though this is a very good argument as to why they could be releasing on Steam first and set 4 second. Also a good argument why some of us should connect our accounts to Steam.

EDIT: Also, maybe Steamcharts will get HexEnt to talk a bit more about numbers and what is going on in regards to the health of the player base. So far the messages in that area have been subversive to say the least (x amount of players over an undisclosed amount of time, etc. How many are actually active, etc.). Good reasons I am sure for those times in development, but it seems this will open it up and there can be some discussion on the matter. I like having a better picture of how the value of my collection will hold up in the long run, even if the picture potentially looks grim.

Metronomy
04-08-2016, 06:52 AM
Yes...with many indie products it comes down to luck.

One little story:
I am a big fan of indie music. I heard Florence and the machine way back as a supporting act for some other indie act (I believe it was wolf parade..not even sure) and the audience consisted of less than 200 people. 2 years later Florence and the machine had huge successes with the same songs they played when I heard them live. I think in this case it was because one of their songs ("kiss with a fist" was used in a vodafone commercial). This is just one example.

Point being that sadly and especialy with small indie products it often comes down to having luck. Have a big streamer/ Youtuber promote your indie game and all of a sudden it maybe becomes big. For Hex its not easy to see that a trend happens all of a sudden. Hex is not exactly easy to digest and to grasp at first look. It is complicated and needs time to get into it. That makes it rather hard. Still viral marketing could happen.

More important though is getting the word out. Customer awareness is the big problem Hex has at this stage. People who might want to play Hex dont know it exists. Steam may help..but again...dont overestimate that effect. What realy needs to happen is press coverage.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 06:55 AM
Yes...with many indie products it comes down to luck.

One littel story:
I am a big fan of indie music. I heard Florence and the machine way back as a supporting act for some other indie act (I believe it was wolf parade..not even sure) and the audience consisted of less than 200 people. 2 years later Florence and the machine had huge successes with the same songs they played when I heard them live. I think in this case it was because one of their songs ("kiss with a fist" was used in a vodafone commercial). This is just one example.

Point being that sadly and especialy with small indie products it often comes down to having a luck. Have a big streamer/ Youtuber promote your indie game and all of a sudden it maybe becomes big. For Hex its not easy to see that a trend happens all of a sudden. Hex is not exactly easy to digest and to grasp and first look. It is complicated and needs time to get into it. That makes it rather hard. Still viral marketing could happen.

More important though is getting the word out. Customer awareness is the big problem Hex has at this stage. People who might want to play Hex dont know it exists. Steam may help..but again...dont overestimate that effect. What realy needs to happen is press coverage.

ZOMG how was Wolf Parade live? [insert Hex and steam point here for relevancy]

fido_one
04-08-2016, 07:39 AM
Yea, that's certainly a scenario that's been on the back of my mind but I guess I never really wanted to acknowledge it. Hopefully things are not that dire and if they are, this Steam release gets them out of it. It's just crazy to me that such a quality and groundbreaking game with good reviews would even get in such a bad spot, but I guess this is the reality of modern game development.

Well it's still a guess, but I like to think about it as every game like this must make some crazy choices to stick around for the long term. By the nature of these things, those choices will be pretty darn risky. There are companies who refuse to take those sort of risks and when they are forced into it, they are entirely too late even if the risk pays off. Gas Powered Games seemed like one of those companies, but I don't think HexEnt will fall into the same trap when it will need to make a move out of necessity. If that is what is happening here, then it's simply good business acumen IMO.

Gregangel
04-08-2016, 07:43 AM
Well...steamcharts will tell how the state of the game realy is. I remember one TCG that got good reviews and decided to go on stream and then went downhill from there on. That game is Infinity Wars. Now..I agree that you cannot compare it to HEX. I do think Hex is the better game. But it should be a warning that a Steam release on its own rarely is good enough. IW has a "very positive" rating (82% positive ratings) and yet it had 96 players playing the game on average over the last 30 days.

http://steamcharts.com/app/257730

Lets hope Hex will go in the opposite direction on player numbers after its steam release. Still..and again...a Steam release is no substitute for a marketing strategy.

The stat is 96 players in average at a same time.
What are your expectations for steam Hex stat ? I personally think a 200/300 players at a same time after a little period of adjustment would be a steam success launch.

ossuary
04-08-2016, 07:46 AM
Someone should just try to get PewDiePie to play Hex. Where he goes, the internet follows. No further marketing required. :p

fido_one
04-08-2016, 07:51 AM
The stat is 96 players in average per hour.
What are your expectations for steam Hex stat ? I personally think a 200/300 players per hours after a little period of adjustment would be a steam success launch.

Lies and statistics. I don't know how relevant these stats are as it doesn't seem to say how many unique players are using the game a day. Nor will we know the % of the userbase not going through Steam.

For Hex, it will be interesting as there is AH data to collate with per hour usage statistics but I think it will still be hard to pinpoint any number from that site as to levels of success of the game...

The relevancy of that site is a new stat that will be logged and married to the perception of how successful that game is, so my guess is HexEnt will have to be a bit more forthcoming on player numbers which will be interesting/good.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 07:53 AM
Someone should just try to get PewDiePie to play Hex. Where he goes, the internet follows. No further marketing required. :p

Does PewDiePie like this sort of complex game? Has he ever talked positively or negatively about other TCGs? He can have the opposite effect, see 'Bear Simulator'.

ossuary
04-08-2016, 07:57 AM
The point is, you've still HEARD of Bear Simulator. Nobody had ever even heard the name Flappy Bird until PDP played it. You can see it in the download records. It doesn't matter that it was the least imaginative, cheapest game ever made - it still got millions of downloads IMMEDIATELY after he reviewed it.

Exposure is everything. Eyes on the screen that wouldn't have otherwise seen us, and a statistically relevant percentage will become conversions just because this type of game is of interest to them.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 08:00 AM
The point is, you've still HEARD of Bear Simulator. Nobody had ever even heard the name Flappy Bird until PDP played it. You can see it in the download records. It doesn't matter that it was the least imaginative, cheapest game ever made - it still got millions of downloads IMMEDIATELY after he reviewed it.

Exposure is everything. Eyes on the screen that wouldn't have otherwise seen us, and a statistically relevant percentage will become conversions just because this type of game is of interest to them.

I really don't think the developer of Bear Simulator would agree with you. According to him it not only tanked his game, he left development as a direct result of it (though there was a lot of good debate about how even though it killed the game, he might not have been cut out for the brutal commentary of the Internet towards Indie devs). PDP removed his review as a result of the mess.

EDIT: I had also heard about Bear Simulator before PDP reviewed it, a good review from Kotaku to be exact. The point was, after PDP trashed it, the steam rating went from a very good number to a very bad number. So I wouldn't want PDP looking at it, at all, if TCGs aren't his type of game.

Zantetsuken
04-08-2016, 08:22 AM
Regarding New Player confusion, Steam has a built-in Guides section specifically to aid in this effort. Anyone can create a Steam Guide and post it to the game to alleviate new player questions and concerns, which are visible from within the game through Steam Overlay.

So while I'm sure KG's New Player Guide will be the first thing posted to it, feel free to make your own guides and explanations to walk players through arena, deckbuilding, or how to make money.

Metronomy
04-08-2016, 08:31 AM
The stat is 96 players in average at a same time.
What are your expectations for steam Hex stat ? I personally think a 200/300 players at a same time after a little period of adjustment would be a steam success launch.

I dont think you can sustain a 50 people team with 96 players on average. I dont think 200/300 is enough either. Again...Cory gave us the 120,000 monthly active users number. My understanding is that he means 120,000 unique players during a month. We will see if that adds up. If the number does add up then thats more than enough indeed. But you dont get to 120,000 monthly users with an average of 200/300 players logged into the game on average.

I dont think PDP would ever review a complex TCG like Hex. That doesnt quite fit in to what he does usually I think.

Tazelbain
04-08-2016, 08:38 AM
I take Steam release as sign they are fine financially. Sets are huge moneymaker and letting Stream Release impact Set 04 release makes no sense if you are desperate for cash. I see this as play for growth. Not just growth from more eyeballs but combining that with the vivaciousness of a new set hitting with all these new eyeballs looking in Hex's direction. It kinda sucks for us who have long since grown tired of the Set 03 meta. But as a plan to build Hex's brand, seems pretty damn solid.

superdax
04-08-2016, 08:41 AM
I dont think you can sustain a 50 people team with 96 players on average. I dont think 200/300 is enough either. Again...Cory gave us the 120,000 monthly active users number. My understanding is that he means 120,000 unique players during a month. We will see if that adds up. If the number does add up then thats more than enough indeed. But you dont get to 120,000 monthly users with an average of 200/300 players logged into the game on average.

I dont think PDP would ever review a complex TCG like Hex. That doesnt quite fit in to what he does usually I think.

I'm sure that Set 4 + Steam will make 1000+ people logged in each day.

I still remember MTGO early day where 2-3k people were logged in and there was activity. IT takes time to have people adopt your game. MTGO now has around 10-15k users all the time. It took them more than 10 years to get there + all the growth they did on the paper side.

It takes time to get players and they need set released on a constant base so that they keep the old players and incorporate the new ones. Hex and its Publisher understand that i'm sure. 120,000 users i don,t think so. 120,000 Logins maybe.

Here's hoping to a huge 2016 year where hex double its user base :)

fido_one
04-08-2016, 08:46 AM
I dont think you can sustain a 50 people team with 96 players on average. I dont think 200/300 is enough either. Again...Cory gave us the 120,000 monthly active users number. My understanding is that he means 120,000 unique players during a month. We will see if that adds up. If the number does add up then thats more than enough indeed. But you dont get to 120,000 monthly users with an average of 200/300 players logged into the game on average.

I dont think PDP would ever review a complex TCG like Hex. That doesnt quite fit in to what he does usually I think.

200 unique users an hour on average, x24 hours in a day = 4,800 a day. Let's pretend that you have 25% coming back for another hour in the day (that's kind of crazy, but we'll do it anyway). That's 3,600 unique users per day.

That would be 108k per month on a very conservative estimate. Again though, I don't think its really apropos to anything other than perception (still important!). Correlate with AH data, we have more of a picture, have HexEnt weight in due to this stat, and we can be getting somewhere.

I'm thinking the 100 per hour number for IW is actually quite high. Magic 2015 is 90 per hour average. Other games which I would consider 'successful' released less than a year ago, some of them AAA are also struggling to hit 100 per hour.

EDIT: Magic Duels is hitting 2.5k an hour. I just think it's a statistic that few can understand and shouldn't be anything close to a measure of success for the game.

Metronomy
04-08-2016, 08:51 AM
I discussed that with my guildmates. I also think it must be 120,000 logins (just from the number dimension). But thats not what the statement implies. The exact quote: "Our little community is getting bigger, with over 700,000 downloads of the game and 120,000 monthly active users."

My reading is that it means 120k unique monthly players. Many of my guildmates say that this number could be true but probably is from the most successful month (remember this was end of december). With steam release we will have a good indicator. If the numbers are true than I feel very good about the future of Hex.

@Fido: Your math is completely flawed. I and many others log in daily (or nearly daily) and do so for many hours at a time (even when I dont play I have the client usually minimized). When I look at my guilds discord I also seem them being in the game daily for hours at a time. Your math basically means everyone plays only a day a month and usually not more than for an hour. Thats absurd. We have hexmeta which shows the same names all the time (and not that many names that is). I highly doubt 120k unique players is true right now. Maybe there is a misunderstanding of the steamcharts numbers. 200 players an hour does not mean that they are unique for the day. If 200 players log in and stay logged in for 24 hours without anyone loggin in or out it is average 200 players an hour the whole day.

100 players per hour are acceptable for retail games which you pay for once (single purchase). It is not good for a game that has constant development (constant costs of patching, servers and new sets) and has a business model centered around constant revenue due to ingame purchases and is free to install (no buying price).

fido_one
04-08-2016, 08:58 AM
I discussed that with my guildmates. I also think it must be 120,000 logins (just from the number dimension). But thats not what the statement implies. The exact quote: "Our little community is getting bigger, with over 700,000 downloads of the game and 120,000 monthly active users."

My reading is that it means 120k unique monthly players. Many of my guildmates say that this number could be true but probably is from the most successful month (remember this was end of december). With steam release we will have a good indicator. If the numbers are true than I feel very good about the future of Hex.

The reading is up to debate though; the ambiguity when that figure was stated has always rubbed me the wrong way. I really dislike being vague on those sort of numbers; if you're not willing to lay out specifics don't say 120k anything. I think the steamchart number is another datapoint where we can see what the 120k number really means; if it's unique, that's great. I think that was said before PvE too, right? Maybe not.

It's just a BS number as far as I'm concerned as there is no underlying definition of what that number represents. It could be 30k people logging in four times a month (I don't think so, that would be really disingenuous, but my point is that number was dropped and not detailed, so of course there will be debate about what it really means).

Zantetsuken
04-08-2016, 09:07 AM
Guys, you really can't judge the number of players based on your own perceptions. The League of Legends community has millions of players yet only a few hundred in chat. Likewise, it still takes a few minutes to find a game depending on the ladder you're going for and your rank.

An old MMO statistic showed that less than 1% of a game community is active and vocal. The silent majority is a powerful thing and you'd barely notice they even exist. Why aren't drafts as frequent? They cost money. AH data shows that even some strangely odd cards trade 4+ times per day. Who exactly is buying these worthless things? Certainly not one of the frequently online users that we see in chat all the time or spamming tournaments.

DrVanPorcine
04-08-2016, 09:07 AM
I think it's a great move to give kickstarter rewards before Steam integration...
You will generate negative review if you give things to a select few (steam crowd does not always understand Kickstarter...)

Way to go !

superdax
04-08-2016, 09:15 AM
Guys, you really can't judge the number of players based on your own perceptions. The League of Legends community has millions of players yet only a few hundred in chat. Likewise, it still takes a few minutes to find a game depending on the ladder you're going for and your rank.

An old MMO statistic showed that less than 1% of a game community is active and vocal. The silent majority is a powerful thing and you'd barely notice they even exist. Why aren't drafts as frequent? They cost money. AH data shows that even some strangely odd cards trade 4+ times per day. Who exactly is buying these worthless things? Certainly not one of the frequently online users that we see in chat all the time or spamming tournaments.

You are 110% right, alot of people either don't talk OR play the PVE side which we don't see. But the reason drafts don't fire are more in the order of : we are tired of set 3 and want something new.

Metronomy
04-08-2016, 09:15 AM
Guys, you really can't judge the number of players based on your own perceptions. The League of Legends community has millions of players yet only a few hundred in chat. Likewise, it still takes a few minutes to find a game depending on the ladder you're going for and your rank.

Well...LoL makes more revenue than Dota 2 and is always bigger on twitch. Fair to say that more people play LoL than Dota 2, right ?. At this moment 851,605 are logged into Dota 2. Thats a little more than a few hundred. I agree about the silent majority thing though. Still doesnt mean that 200/300 an hour adds up to 120,000 monthly players.

Kami
04-08-2016, 09:48 AM
I think it's a great move to give kickstarter rewards before Steam integration...
You will generate negative review if you give things to a select few (steam crowd does not always understand Kickstarter...)

To be fair, it wouldn't matter. As I pointed out the Armello Kickstarter to Steam example, it just takes a handful of people to dig up that Kickstarter backers get 'extras' before it blows up. The when doesn't matter.

Originally, Armello backers were promised exclusive stuff... then when Steam users complained about it, they back-pedaled and made the Kickstarter stuff from exclusive to timed-exclusive to non-exclusive. The cluster-sh-storm that arose was insane.

Their only saving grace was that the game itself is pretty good for what it is.

This is not the only game that has caved to having stuff for backers and being attacked by Steam users. I don't expect HEX to cave but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a point of contention by new players.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 09:54 AM
To be fair, it wouldn't matter. As I pointed out the Armello Kickstarter to Steam example, it just takes a handful of people to dig up that Kickstarter backers get 'extras' before it blows up. The when doesn't matter.

Originally, Armello backers were promised exclusive stuff... then when Steam users complained about it, they back-pedaled and made the Kickstarter stuff timed-exclusive to non-exclusive. The cluster-sh-storm that arose was insane.

Their only saving grace was that the game itself is pretty good for what it is.

This is not the only game that has caved to having stuff for backers and being attacked by Steam users. I don't expect HEX to cave but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a point of contention by new players.

Agreed. I'd say 'it is what it is' but I think HexEnt can prepare for the backlash somehow and to some small degree by expecting that backlash to come.

katkillad
04-08-2016, 10:08 AM
What if they opened the KS tiers again for purchase for the steam launch? Would KS backers actually be upset? This would be great marketing... I would love it because I want a collector tier and it's probably the only way Hex will ever get money from myself and a lot of players who don't need to buy plat. They could raise millions of dollars again.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 10:10 AM
What if they opened the KS tiers again for purchase for the steam launch? Would KS backers actually be upset? This would be great marketing... I would love it because I want a collector tier and it's probably the only way Hex will ever get money from myself and a lot of players who don't need to buy plat. They could raise millions of dollars again.

I for one would go apeshit. So would a lot of the rest of the community; it was a big risk back then to dip into the KS, it is not a risk now.

Most importantly CZE has stated repeatedly in no unclear terms that the KS was a one and done affair, that they would never offer it again. If they did, it would be an extraordinarily bad indicator of where the game is. It would ruin the economy for starters.

bwarner
04-08-2016, 10:16 AM
Yah, I'm not sure if you realize quite how good a value the Kickstarter tiers were. If they were available now, people would probably dump another million dollars into the game easily, but in doing so they would drop the price of existing collections significantly, and it would ultimately be disastrous.

Kami
04-08-2016, 10:17 AM
What if they opened the KS tiers again for purchase for the steam launch? Would KS backers actually be upset? This would be great marketing... I would love it because I want a collector tier and it's probably the only way Hex will ever get money from myself and a lot of players who don't need to buy plat. They could raise millions of dollars again.

This would kill the game. It would literally be a slap-in-the-face for any existing backer. Not because backers wouldn't be happy to share but because backers backed when the game didn't even exist yet.

It'd also be a company breaking promises at that point. And from there it'd be a downward spiral imo.

This argument has come up several times in the past.

nicosharp
04-08-2016, 10:18 AM
What if they opened the KS tiers again for purchase for the steam launch? Would KS backers actually be upset? This would be great marketing... I would love it because I want a collector tier and it's probably the only way Hex will ever get money from myself and a lot of players who don't need to buy plat. They could raise millions of dollars again.

I don't see it happening. Unless you want to see something far more devastating happen than a worst case scenario steam launch. Losing faith of your loyal playerbase, in a game that markets collections maintaining value, will destroy the game quickly through word of mouth. I don't see HXE ever doing this, as Cory knows the repercussions a company faces that pull shady shit.. (see: Upper Deck)

katkillad
04-08-2016, 10:26 AM
Yah, I'm not sure if you realize quite how good a value the Kickstarter tiers were.

I realize the value, I just got 13k plat from my 1x extra KS PVE cards and equipment that dropped last night. I would argue that they gave too much value that might be hurting the game in the long run. I think most people who kickstarted would probably kickstart for more or a higher tier if they had the chance again and find it slightly odd they would be upset if given the opportunity to do it again.

People keep complaining about the lack of marketing and the Kickstarter was the best marketing Hex has ever had. Unfortunately an eternally long dev time ruined that hype.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 10:29 AM
People keep complaining about the lack of marketing and the Kickstarter was the best marketing Hex has ever had. Unfortunately an eternally long dev time ruined that hype.

Yeah but you have to realize that we wouldn't even be talking in this forum if it wasn't for the success of the KS. It was designed for one thing, and that was to kick start the game. Sorry about the pun there, but doing it again as Kami, NicoSharp and Bwarner stated would have most of the original KS backers going from stringent supporters to the game's biggest detractors. By CZE's own wording, another KS for this game will not happen.

BKCshah
04-08-2016, 10:50 AM
KS being reopened would be meh. However, I don't see an issue creating 'similar' packages. Set 4 will be the first non-supported set from any boosts generated during KS.

Why not consider throwing a package together with some packs, sleeves and VIP entries at a reasonable discount to entice players, especially new players, into spending real currencies? Hex is pretty bad at making people want to give them money and also creating opportunities to give them money.

superdax
04-08-2016, 10:53 AM
KS being reopened would be meh. However, I don't see an issue creating 'similar' packages. Set 4 will be the first non-supported set from any boosts generated during KS.

Why not consider throwing a package together with some packs, sleeves and VIP entries at a reasonable discount to entice players, especially new players, into spending real currencies? Hex is pretty bad at making people want to give them money and also creating opportunities to give them money.

As long as they are tied to the account + a one time deal

BKCshah
04-08-2016, 10:56 AM
As long as they are tied to the account + a one time deal

Again, I wouldn't even worry about this as a business. It does 'nothing' except prevent cash flow. I would consider doing one at the start of each PvP set, etc. Businesses should do everything to increase cash flow that is reasonable. Should KS have been 1 purchase per player?

nicosharp
04-08-2016, 10:56 AM
KS being reopened would be meh. However, I don't see an issue creating 'similar' packages. Set 4 will be the first non-supported set from any boosts generated during KS.

Why not consider throwing a package together with some packs, sleeves and VIP entries at a reasonable discount to entice players, especially new players, into spending real currencies? Hex is pretty bad at making people want to give them money and also creating opportunities to give them money.
I'm a big fan of them bundling content to make a buck. That is totally fine. Just not exclusive content, unless it's newly created exclusive content just for the bundle buyers. I was thinking something like 1 month VIP, 2 draft tickets, and a sealed ticket for $20
= a $36 value.
Could even have an exclusive sleeve that is HEX with steam coming out of the lettering.

katkillad
04-08-2016, 11:00 AM
Everyone has heard the statistics people throw around about how 1% of a player base can supply the majority of a games income, I'm not trying to compare Hex to a crappy cell phone game but I fear maybe they created a situation with the Kickstarter that the top paying customers don't actually ever need to put money into the game. Creating a situation that heavily relies on new players, which puts you on Steam and giving away 30% of your income.

I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe the current model doesn't work? Maybe we take a hit to the economy, which I think is debatable, and hope the game gains in popularity in the long run when they are hopefully hitting their set release targets.

superdax
04-08-2016, 11:15 AM
Again, I wouldn't even worry about this as a business. It does 'nothing' except prevent cash flow. I would consider doing one at the start of each PvP set, etc. Businesses should do everything to increase cash flow that is reasonable. Should KS have been 1 purchase per player?

I'm not talking KS, I'm talking bundle when you purchase the first time.

Like eveyone said, doing another KS would kill the game and all its value. The risk was taken in the beginning.

FlyingMeatchip
04-08-2016, 11:15 AM
Steam cut is 30%? That seems very high.

superdax
04-08-2016, 11:16 AM
Everyone has heard the statistics people throw around about how 1% of a player base can supply the majority of a games income, I'm not trying to compare Hex to a crappy cell phone game but I fear maybe they created a situation with the Kickstarter that the top paying customers don't actually ever need to put money into the game. Creating a situation that heavily relies on new players, which puts you on Steam and giving away 30% of your income.

I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe the current model doesn't work? Maybe we take a hit to the economy, which I think is debatable, and hope the game gains in popularity in the long run when they are hopefully hitting their set release targets.

At the speed that i sold my KS PVE stuff yesterday, there are NON-KS players that are buying stuff with Plat.

katkillad
04-08-2016, 11:20 AM
At the speed that i sold my KS PVE stuff yesterday, there are NON-KS players that are buying stuff with Plat.

Maybe? The $250 tiers and even the GK is missing a full set of the PVE cards unless you backed multiple tiers. I would even say people who kickstarted are going to be the ones more aware of when those items go up on the auction house. You can't really know the people who bought your items are non-ks.

superdax
04-08-2016, 11:33 AM
Maybe? The $250 tiers and even the GK is missing a full set of the PVE cards unless you backed multiple tiers. I would even say people who kickstarted are going to be the ones more aware of when those items go up on the auction house. You can't really know the people who bought your items are non-ks.

Then look at the Equipment sales - Each KS has already an equipement that means they don,t need another one. I sold mine pretty fast which means they are not KS.

nicosharp
04-08-2016, 11:36 AM
Not the first time you've driven posts to revisiting the KS.

It Is Not Going To Happen.

Chark
04-08-2016, 11:37 AM
I'll confirm that doing another Kickstarter is not happening to put that to bed.

FlyingMeatchip
04-08-2016, 11:43 AM
Is the steam cut as high as 30%? I sure would like to know. If so I probably won't link then.

superdax
04-08-2016, 11:47 AM
Is the steam cut as high as 30%? I sure would like to know. If so I probably won't link then.

No matter the %, they take a cut, reason enought not to link.

hacky
04-08-2016, 11:48 AM
Is the steam cut as high as 30%? I sure would like to know. If so I probably won't link then.

We probably won't ever know the actual amount Steam gets. But as Chark said earlier:


I can't tell players what to do: everyone has to decide for themselves.

If you link your account to steam, when you click the in-game buy plat button, you'll be taken to a steam interface to buy platinum.
If you don't link your account steam, you'll continue to have the same experience as you currently have.

At the end of the day, we are happy that you play our game and of course a little happier if you buy plat/pack. How specifically you buy plat/packs is not as important.

If you want to support Hex the maximum amount possible for your gaming dollar, decide and do it. Supporting Hex with Steam linked or not linked still supports Hex.

bootlace
04-08-2016, 12:04 PM
Is the steam cut as high as 30%? I sure would like to know. If so I probably won't link then.

I doubt they can reveal that. But I guess I should share my sources:

http://www.pcgamer.com/steam-and-gog-take-30-revenue-cut-suggests-fez-creator-phil-fish/

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/07/notch-on-why-minecraft-still-isnt-on-steam/

Xexist
04-08-2016, 12:43 PM
Everyone has heard the statistics people throw around about how 1% of a player base can supply the majority of a games income, I'm not trying to compare Hex to a crappy cell phone game but I fear maybe they created a situation with the Kickstarter that the top paying customers don't actually ever need to put money into the game. Creating a situation that heavily relies on new players, which puts you on Steam and giving away 30% of your income.

I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe the current model doesn't work? Maybe we take a hit to the economy, which I think is debatable, and hope the game gains in popularity in the long run when they are hopefully hitting their set release targets.

What makes you think all KS backers are playing for free for now and ever? Im a Grand King backer and I dont even have set one complete yet. The only people playing for free are those able to effectively go infinite while drafting / playing the AH. And those can be anyone, not just KS backers.

bizznach
04-08-2016, 01:01 PM
god i wish free forever...hex is my most expensive hobby/game for sure!it is also my number one game in terms of /played.

i wonder if 120k active users include China.what i don't wonder is whether or not hex would lie about stuff like that to make themselves look more popular to us.
if they said 120k why cant they mean 120k regardless of what random player thinks?

fido_one
04-08-2016, 01:02 PM
What makes you think all KS backers are playing for free for now and ever? Im a Drang King backer and I dont even have set one complete yet. The only people playing for free are those able to effectively go infinite while drafting / playing the AH. And those can be anyone, not just KS backers.

There are the 15 Producers out there! Other than that, errr, yeah, Xexist is totes right.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 01:04 PM
god i wish free forever...hex is my most expensive hobby/game for sure!it is also my number one game in terms of /played.

i wonder if 120k active users include China.what i don't wonder is whether or not hex would lie about stuff like that to make themselves look more popular to us.
if they said 120k why cant they mean 120k regardless of what random player thinks?

China is still in beta; the game is not live there yet. Don't know when it is supposed to launch, I'm hoping HexEnt starts posting news on the matter at some point in general on the front page.

Kami
04-08-2016, 01:33 PM
There are the 15 Producers out there! Other than that, errr, yeah, Xexist is totes right.

As far as I'm aware, there are only 14 Producers. One of the producers being a company backer and not an actual person (Blizzard China iirc).

We know two of the Producers somewhat, Colin and the kid that worked hard. :stormcloud: Rest are unknown.

Svenn
04-08-2016, 01:50 PM
As far as I'm aware, there are only 14 Producers. One of the producers being a company backer and not an actual person (Blizzard China iirc).

We know two of the Producers somewhat, Colin and the kid that worked hard. :stormcloud: Rest are unknown.

Wasn't the guy that was in charge of Level Up! a Producer backer too?

EDIT: Yeap.

https://www.hextcg.com/big-news-for-hex/

Meet Phil Cahiwat co-founder of Level-Up!
And a Producer level backer from the Kickstarter campaign!

fido_one
04-08-2016, 02:01 PM
the kid that worked hard. :stormcloud:

That kid deserves it I am sure.

So right now there are 56 people in game according to Steam. That's a lot, as that means it is only recording people who actively linked the client to their steam account, right? I don't have it linked, but since I subscribed to the community it's reading a live number from groups (which is not being tracked on steamcharts).

wolzarg
04-08-2016, 02:12 PM
Everyone has heard the statistics people throw around about how 1% of a player base can supply the majority of a games income, I'm not trying to compare Hex to a crappy cell phone game but I fear maybe they created a situation with the Kickstarter that the top paying customers don't actually ever need to put money into the game. Creating a situation that heavily relies on new players, which puts you on Steam and giving away 30% of your income.

I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe the current model doesn't work? Maybe we take a hit to the economy, which I think is debatable, and hope the game gains in popularity in the long run when they are hopefully hitting their set release targets.
There is none just "stealing" money from the company on the back of their awesome tier. Every plat you see is bought by someone from HXE even if a person sells say all their collector stuff for 120k plat not only does that mean someone else had to buy 120k plat it also means that HXE gets a AH cut on that. For everyone that is sitting pretty with 40k plat and a full collection there are a couple of 100 players or more who spent 10-20$ on plat and don't have that plat any more.

bwarner
04-08-2016, 02:41 PM
That kid deserves it I am sure.

So right now there are 56 people in game according to Steam. That's a lot, as that means it is only recording people who actively linked the client to their steam account, right? I don't have it linked, but since I subscribed to the community it's reading a live number from groups (which is not being tracked on steamcharts).

Wait, are you saying it is already live? I thought it wasn't going live until the 12th?

fido_one
04-08-2016, 02:44 PM
Wait, are you saying it is already live? I thought it wasn't going live until the 12th?

No it's not, but in my steam groups, I have listed '56 people in game' for 'Hex Shards of Fate'. I think steam is tracking the people who linked the existing client into their steam account, which if true, is pretty impressive as I'm assuming that number is quite a low representation of current players.

fido_one
04-08-2016, 02:45 PM
4382

fido_one
04-08-2016, 02:47 PM
4382

Oh ha! I'm an idiot! That's saying 'of the 170 people in the Hex Steam community, 52 of them are playing games in steam right now'.

Ignore everything I say. <- good rule in general.

creature
04-08-2016, 04:38 PM
Exited about Hex coming to Steam. I think it will exponentially increase the player count. That said, I and most others take reviews seriously on steam and the new player experience is currently not very good. I'm not gonna repeat everyone else's thoughts here, just want to be another voice adding weight to the general opinion.

One simple suggestion I do have is to add hints to the campaign. It would not be difficult at all. For the wurmoids, for example, during one of the nodes as you approach, you might inform the player that this is an optional side quest, it is difficult, and they may want to save it for later. A hint about using gold to acquire new cards would also be good, and again, very easy, and would help your review score considerably, I think.

Mejis
04-08-2016, 05:22 PM
Exited about Hex coming to Steam. I think it will exponentially increase the player count. That said, I and most others take reviews seriously on steam and the new player experience is currently not very good. I'm not gonna repeat everyone else's thoughts here, just want to be another voice adding weight to the general opinion.

One simple suggestion I do have is to add hints to the campaign. It would not be difficult at all. For the wurmoids, for example, during one of the nodes as you approach, you might inform the player that this is an optional side quest, it is difficult, and they may want to save it for later. A hint about using gold to acquire new cards would also be good, and again, very easy, and would help your review score considerably, I think.

Regarding the latter, it would be cool it there was a character in the campaign that represented the auction house in some way, or at least led you there naturally and introduced how it worked so new players could go "oh wow, I can use this gold to buy all these insanely cheap commons/uncommons. No other card game is this free to play. They really meant what they said in the description of PvE!!"

Xexist
04-08-2016, 08:28 PM
Regarding the latter, it would be cool it there was a character in the campaign that represented the auction house in some way, or at least led you there naturally and introduced how it worked so new players could go "oh wow, I can use this gold to buy all these insanely cheap commons/uncommons. No other card game is this free to play. They really meant what they said in the description of PvE!!"

like if some point early on in the campaign you get a 'quest' to go buy a card from the AH. Nothing economy breaking just buy any common for any amount of gold in the AH = complete quest. Then people might actually spend the 2 or 3 minutes it would take to figure it out.

Dashgoor
04-09-2016, 12:46 AM
No matter the %, they take a cut, reason enought not to link.

The main reason for me to link the account will be to write a (positive) review for HEX on steam. As a "hardcore" gamer I know of the importance of a good steam rating, so I think its more important to help HEX in that way. Also, someone mentioned the possibility of unlinking the account. I have to check about that when I am going to buy plat (which I don't "need" as tripple GK :o)

Edit: dam I am stupid, I can link one of the 3 accounts to write the review and buy plat with another one :)

fido_one
04-09-2016, 06:30 AM
We've been talking about guides but not active support. I think the client should have front and center the support page, as well as the guides for new players. Should be plastered all over the place, even with Nobles doing their thing in chat.

We have great active support at support.hextcg.com, no reason we shouldn't put it front and center for the Steam launch.

Salverus
04-10-2016, 03:25 AM
For now I think it is indeed better if you purchase platinum without steam. But iIf HEX gets trading cards on steam in the future, then you would only get those if you buy platinum through stream where steam does take a cut. But on the other hand, if those cards/emoticons/backgrounds are traded over steam, HEX gets a percentage of every sold item. So all they have to do is make some beautiful steam profile backgrounds that everyone wants to have, even the non HEX players :D

Ertzi
04-10-2016, 05:41 AM
Do people really bother with the Steam trading cards?

Poetic
04-10-2016, 05:44 AM
I do because I have minor ocd but then I bought 12 games one summer sale and got overwhelmed. So I try not to look at it lol

darkwonders
04-10-2016, 09:15 AM
For now I think it is indeed better if you purchase platinum without steam. But iIf HEX gets trading cards on steam in the future, then you would only get those if you buy platinum through stream where steam does take a cut. But on the other hand, if those cards/emoticons/backgrounds are traded over steam, HEX gets a percentage of every sold item. So all they have to do is make some beautiful steam profile backgrounds that everyone wants to have, even the non HEX players :D

I hope CZE manages to integrate the entire Steam community store for Hex. That'd allow us to start selling our cards and equipment outside of the game itself.

I know it's still tied to Steam, but that still would allow me to essentially "cash out" at times,

Plus Steam's store has the ask/buy feature so many people in Hex have asked to implement into the game. And CZE still gets the added benefit of taking a cut for any items sold through the Steam store, so that's a good way to make up for the up to 30% cut Valve takes for any purchase through Steam.

CoS
04-10-2016, 11:55 AM
^^ thus is what the RMAH should progress from.

Voormas
04-10-2016, 02:56 PM
Do people really bother with the Steam trading cards?

If you want badges you gotta get cards, I know you don't need badges but I think some of them are really cool :)

Tazelbain
04-11-2016, 07:27 AM
Interesting if there was a way to transfer plat into steam cash, then there could pseudo way to cash out and not worry about anti-money-laundering and gambling laws.

Svenn
04-11-2016, 08:41 AM
Do people really bother with the Steam trading cards?

Yes, a very large number of people.

Koz
04-11-2016, 09:14 AM
I've been wondering, should us "regular" players avoid playing Hex for a few days after Steam release? The last thing we want is for server overload to give people a bad first impression and quit before they've even really tried the game. I'm just remembering the HORRIBLE lag from when AZ1 launched and I really don't want a repeat of that because that will be death for this game's potential on Steam as surely as anything.

Thoughts?

fido_one
04-11-2016, 09:20 AM
I've been wondering, should us "regular" players avoid playing Hex for a few days after Steam release? The last thing we want is for server overload to give people a bad first impression and quit before they've even really tried the game. I'm just remembering the HORRIBLE lag from when AZ1 launched and I really don't want a repeat of that because that will be death for this game's potential on Steam as surely as anything.

Thoughts?

Nah, the best thing about Hex is the community, having veteran players around at launch to help out is what will make the non-griefers stick around. Always good to see people helping out new players, sometimes with a few cards sprinkled into the mix.

Warrender
04-11-2016, 09:34 AM
Do people really bother with the Steam trading cards?

Enough so there is a thriving economy built up around it.

Oli
04-11-2016, 01:42 PM
Steam page now says 19. April on my iPad.

fido_one
04-11-2016, 01:44 PM
Steam page now says 19. April on my iPad.

I think iOS (maybe depending on version) is parsing the code incorrectly and showing the java date that HexEnt isn't prepared to stand on. Good to know, but it's not official as it still reads 'April' on Windows 10 and Android 5.x

Antfunk
04-11-2016, 01:55 PM
On my iPad it shows the 12th lol.

Mejis
04-11-2016, 03:16 PM
So... given the Steam source code now says April 19th, not 12th, perhaps we'll get Primal Dawn this week eh?? :P

CoS
04-11-2016, 03:45 PM
Steam release end of April seems likely. Set4 releasing prior would be amazing but I won't hold my breath.

Chark
04-11-2016, 04:00 PM
Hey guys,

I want to mention a new feature in the game that came out with this patch: it's a step towards a Steam release. New accounts are restricted from sending attachments to other accounts, spending plat on the auction house or accepting CoD payments. We prefer not to publish the exact parameters of what it takes to remove this restriction, but in the general sense, your account age and some normal behaviors in the game will remove this restriction (you only need to meet one of the requirements to unlock).

We specifically did not limit receiving items into the new accounts by mail, because we know that players often provide cards to their friends, or even strangers who just picked up the game. Our goal is to create a barrier for those who use new accounts for scams, exploits or otherwise things that would violate the rules of the game. During the design of this feature we tried to balance the intrusiveness of it against the needs to protect ourselves (and our players) and we feel that we landed in a pretty good spot. Of course, as steam launches, we'll continue to monitor this feature and evaluate our decisions.

fido_one
04-11-2016, 04:03 PM
Hey guys,

I want to mention a new feature in the game that came out with this patch: it's a step towards a Steam release. New accounts are restricted from sending attachments to other accounts, spending plat on the auction house or accepting CoD payments. We prefer not to publish the exact parameters of what it takes to remove this restriction, but in the general sense, your account age and some normal behaviors in the game will remove this restriction (you only need to meet one of the requirements to unlock).

We specifically did not limit receiving items into the new accounts by mail, because we know that players often provide cards to their friends, or even strangers who just picked up the game. Our goal is to create a barrier for those who use new accounts for scams, exploits or otherwise things that would violate the rules of the game. During the design of this feature we tried to balance the intrusiveness of it against the needs to protect ourselves (and our players) and we feel that we landed in a pretty good spot. Of course, as steam launches, we'll continue to monitor this feature and evaluate our decisions.

Cool; awesome to know, if I find anyone in client with issues in this regard that is asking it seems like the response could be 'if you just created your account, there could be a block from sending attachments out - that will be removed over a period of time... etc. etc.'

Axle
04-11-2016, 04:04 PM
Sounds like a bad approach. The first hours of playing the game influence new players a lot. There are some people that want to pay right away. These are your whales. And you're shutting them out.
The spending plat on the auction house restriction makes the least sense really. The rest make sense.

fido_one
04-11-2016, 04:06 PM
Sounds like a bad approach. The first hours of playing the game influence new players a lot. There are some people that want to pay right away. These are your whales. And you're shutting them out.
The spending plat on the auction house restriction makes the least sense really.

Sounds like it's a steam requirement so there is no going around it. And Chark didn't say everything would be banned, only certain elements that are prone to scamming.

Personally, put everything you want in to prevent scamming, even at these costs. Scamming is the greater of these evils in this game IMO. Great to hear about the whats and whys before we figure it out ourselves as well.

katkillad
04-11-2016, 04:14 PM
Not being able to buy from the AH seems kind of rough, like what if you are only interested in constructed play? There are potentially some customer service nightmares here though so I guess I can understand that.

fido_one
04-11-2016, 04:19 PM
Not being able to buy from the AH seems kind of rough, like what if you are only interested in constructed play? There are potentially some customer service nightmares here though so I guess I can understand that.

I know that Steam had one of the most labyrinthine set of rules to blast through when you wanted to spend Steam funds to trade cards. They could be imposing the same sort of thing on the AH.

But I also know that trading in Steam is the most griefer/scamming free experience I have had even though it was such a PITA to get approved to spend money on the thing. Maybe beyond helping prevent scamming it could allow for trade of other items on the Steam marketplace if HexEnt ever has the will and means to go there.

ossuary
04-11-2016, 04:42 PM
Note that it only prevents you from spending plat on the auction house, not from buying or spending plat in the store. And it's a temporary restriction which will be lifted in the normal course of using the account. I'm willing to bet 99.9% of players will never even know about the restriction unless they are actively trying to do something subversive. That's kind of the point.

the_artic_one
04-11-2016, 04:47 PM
Not being able to buy from the AH seems kind of rough, like what if you are only interested in constructed play? There are potentially some customer service nightmares here though so I guess I can understand that.

I assume purchasing platinum will be one of the actions that will remove the restrictions as is usually the case with this type of anti-scammer system.

Chark
04-11-2016, 05:09 PM
Sounds like a bad approach. The first hours of playing the game influence new players a lot. There are some people that want to pay right away. These are your whales. And you're shutting them out.
The spending plat on the auction house restriction makes the least sense really. The rest make sense.

We are not turning off anyone's ability to pay. You can spend money to get platinum. You can spend platinum to buy things from the store or enter tournaments.

What you can't do is funnel platinum between accounts by buying a common for 100.000 plat on the AH.


I assume purchasing platinum will be one of the actions that will remove the restrictions as is usually the case with this type of anti-scammer system.

It's not, because these systems are aimed specifically at vectors of attack where someone uses a new account to buy/acquire large amounts of platinum. It would be a worthless system to implement if the action of buying plat from us would remove the restriction.

Showsni
04-11-2016, 05:44 PM
I'd have thought the 5% AH fee was enough of a disincentive to move platinum in that way, unless new accounts are automatically being granted free starting platinum or something.

Jugg
04-11-2016, 07:55 PM
What you can't do is funnel platinum between accounts by buying a common for 100.000 plat on the AH.


Why the hell would anyone do that, and lose 5.000 plat to fees, when they can just straight up trade it to another player? It isn't like either way is any harder to track, or would look any more "legit" if it was investigated.

Zubrin
04-11-2016, 08:24 PM
I'd have thought the 5% AH fee was enough of a disincentive to move platinum in that way, unless new accounts are automatically being granted free starting platinum or something.


This is really a 3-pronged solution to prevent users from benefiting from scamming/credit card theft (from what I can tell, could be wrong here).

1. Prevent players from sending plat from new accounts (Player N) to old accounts (Player O).

Good, but they can have player O send a c.o.d and get that money.

2. Prevent new players from paying for c.o.d. items.

Okay, but they can still transfer plat to a new account via the auction house. It is at a loss, but they are still sending "free" money.

3. Prevent new players from buying items on the AH so they don't buy stuff as a way to transferring money.


Yes, the AH is at a loss, but if it is the only option, 5% is a small price to pay. Also, if they publish how to unlock your account, then all such attempts to steal CCs will just follow those steps until they unlock the account.

This, in theory, localizes the damage. If Steam has to reverse a transaction due to stolen a stolen credit card, it puts Hex in an awkward position of either letting the stuff remain in the system (essentially, becoming free) or reversing the transactions and punishing some innocent players (Player O can go on to spend that newly acquired plat on other cards and it becomes a mess). Now, if player N gets a charge reverse, it is easier to lock down that account, remove the acquired items, and not have a larger effect on the ecosystem.

knightofeffect
04-11-2016, 08:29 PM
Does this do anything to Hex's "walled garden" approach? Are EU, NA, and the east all going to be united now? Is the "walled garden" approach even a thing anymore?

Jugg
04-11-2016, 08:48 PM
Is the "walled garden" approach even a thing anymore?

Except for china, no.

Chark
04-11-2016, 09:35 PM
Why the hell would anyone do that, and lose 5.000 plat to fees, when they can just straight up trade it to another player? It isn't like either way is any harder to track, or would look any more "legit" if it was investigated.

Uhhh..because in the context of this discussion they can't. We are discussing a feature where a new account can't buy cards with plat, can't mail attachments (including currency) and can't accept CoDs.

Zantetsuken
04-11-2016, 09:40 PM
Uhhh..because in the context of this discussion they can't. We are discussing a feature where a new account can't buy cards with plat, can't mail attachments (including currency) and can't accept CoDs.

On that matter, some friendly documentation highlighting that fact may be prudent. We already get countless newbie questions in general chat asking about things that should be explained within the client.

GobBluth
04-11-2016, 09:48 PM
On that matter, some friendly documentation highlighting that fact may be prudent. We already get countless newbie questions in general chat asking about things that should be explained within the client.

This. Will you give a basic breakdown of how people can get their accounts "unlocked"? Do they have to do the campaign, be online for a certain time period, engage in chat, etc?

Maybe have one of those "check to make this not appear again" boxes when someone enters the AH just to make sure people with new accounts are aware of it. I know when I start a game sometimes I just click through everything so highlighting it in the AH itself might be good.

XyZyddious
04-11-2016, 10:00 PM
Hello HEX'ers,

We live in the world of identity theft and internet scams. Steam is well a well-known place where people often use stolen credit cards to make fraudulent purcahses. All that CZE is doing here is protecting the company as well as protecting the economy of the game. As one who has sunk quite a bit of my hard earned money into this game. I am glad that they are taking these steps to protect the value of my collection.

Thoom
04-11-2016, 10:03 PM
This. Will you give a basic breakdown of how people can get their accounts "unlocked"? Do they have to do the campaign, be online for a certain time period, engage in chat, etc?


We prefer not to publish the exact parameters of what it takes to remove this restriction, but in the general sense, your account age and some normal behaviors in the game will remove this restriction (you only need to meet one of the requirements to unlock).

They can't say exactly what the requirements are, because that would kind of defeat the purpose (making it a pain in the ass to use Hex to launder stolen credit cards/steam wallet funds).

Jugg
04-11-2016, 10:04 PM
Uhhh..because in the context of this discussion they can't. We are discussing a feature where a new account can't buy cards with plat, can't mail attachments (including currency) and can't accept CoDs.

Yeah I misread the post I was responding to, mb.

publicuser
04-11-2016, 10:47 PM
Hey guys,

I want to mention a new feature in the game that came out with this patch: it's a step towards a Steam release. New accounts are restricted from sending attachments to other accounts, spending plat on the auction house or accepting CoD payments. We prefer not to publish the exact parameters of what it takes to remove this restriction, but in the general sense, your account age and some normal behaviors in the game will remove this restriction (you only need to meet one of the requirements to unlock).

We specifically did not limit receiving items into the new accounts by mail, because we know that players often provide cards to their friends, or even strangers who just picked up the game. Our goal is to create a barrier for those who use new accounts for scams, exploits or otherwise things that would violate the rules of the game. During the design of this feature we tried to balance the intrusiveness of it against the needs to protect ourselves (and our players) and we feel that we landed in a pretty good spot. Of course, as steam launches, we'll continue to monitor this feature and evaluate our decisions.

Can we have this mentioned in its own thread, so that its noticeable to new and other players. Would be even better if displayed on Hextcg.com

Also in my opinion this isn't a feature, its more like a security measure in place.
Would be very helpful to the affected players if they get the gist (Visually display the reason) of why their existing features are not working in game, because of this security measure.

Yoss
04-12-2016, 07:24 AM
Can we have this mentioned in its own thread, so that its noticeable to new and other players. Would be even better if displayed on Hextcg.com

Also in my opinion this isn't a feature, its more like a security measure in place.
Would be very helpful to the affected players if they get the gist (Visually display the reason) of why their existing features are not working in game, because of this security measure.

I think the whole point is to NOT be widely known. It's perfect buried where it is.

Showsni
04-12-2016, 07:32 AM
I think the whole point is to NOT be widely known. It's perfect buried where it is.

Unless some MtG pro watches Jeff Hoogland's stream, sees there's a 100k invitational coming up, and decides to join and immediately buy a deck on the AH.

Timlagor
04-12-2016, 07:36 AM
This is really a 3-pronged solution to prevent users from benefiting from scamming/credit card theft (from what I can tell, could be wrong here).

Thanks for this. I was wondering how a scammer could gain from this but if it's about cashing in on external (to Hex) scams/theft then that makes a lot more sense.

Might be useful for there to be some way around it for the dedicated constructed players though. I suppose they can receive free (ingame) stuff after buying it from an outside source which is probably at least as good for them as going through plat and likely doesn't actually affect plat sales anyway (or they can receive it free from someone who trusts them to pay up in plat later).

Hatts
04-12-2016, 07:40 AM
Unless some MtG pro watches Jeff Hoogland's stream, sees there's a 100k invitational coming up, and decides to join and immediately buy a deck on the AH.

If they're watching Jeff's stream they'll buy the deck from hex primal instead ;)

azy
04-12-2016, 08:00 AM
Thats great news the sooner you guys can cut the umbilical cord with gameforge the better.

bwarner
04-12-2016, 08:05 AM
Thats great news the sooner you guys can cut the umbilical cord with gameforge the better.

This has nothing to do with them cutting ties with Gameforge.

azy
04-12-2016, 08:13 AM
This has nothing to do with them cutting ties with Gameforge.

Of course it is, but you are too simple minded to see long term, talk to me in 2 years when the contract with gameforge is over.

ossuary
04-12-2016, 08:25 AM
Of course it is, but you are too simple minded to see long term, talk to me in 2 years when the contract with gameforge is over.

GameForge is the publisher for Hex in both Europe and North America. That will not change. Your understanding of the situation is incorrect. There is more to their relationship than just where you download the client from. Steam is not a publisher of Hex, they don't own or run servers the game will live on, they don't handle localization, marketing, QA, or other key features of the overall Hex product, and they aren't going to. They are merely an additional place that the game can be downloaded from, and that a community can gather around.

Don't read further into this than is necessary. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. ;)

Sixlooter
04-12-2016, 08:32 AM
GameForge is the publisher for Hex in both Europe and North America. That will not change. Your understanding of the situation is incorrect. There is more to their relationship than just where you download the client from. Steam is not a publisher of Hex, they don't own or run servers the game will live on, they don't handle localization, marketing, QA, or other key features of the overall Hex product, and they aren't going to. They are merely an additional place that the game can be downloaded from, and that a community can gather around.

Don't read further into this than is necessary. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. ;)

Exactly.
I smell a little bit of trolling on azy's side.

Yoss
04-12-2016, 09:02 AM
Might be useful for there to be some way around it for the dedicated constructed players though. I suppose they can receive free (ingame) stuff after buying it from an outside source which is probably at least as good for them as going through plat and likely doesn't actually affect plat sales anyway (or they can receive it free from someone who trusts them to pay up in plat later).


If they're watching Jeff's stream they'll buy the deck from hex primal instead ;)

3rd party sales seems like a great work around to me.

Thoom
04-12-2016, 09:11 AM
Unless some MtG pro watches Jeff Hoogland's stream, sees there's a 100k invitational coming up, and decides to join and immediately buy a deck on the AH.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose that someone who's willing to join up and immediately drop $50-300 on a top tier deck probably isn't going to be greatly deterred by a very brief waiting period.

ShadowRealm
04-13-2016, 04:49 AM
Don't know if it's already been brought up before, but I think that a HUGE cleanup / update of the main site pages is mandatory for such a big release and the incoming flow of new players. If you look into the info there (Overview, Double Back, Equipment, etc.), many things changed since the KS campaign and many info are now outdated / false / different. Even actual images / cards art and design might benefit this (the new Steam trailer is very nice for example!).

It can really become a problem if nothing is done on this side :)

Gregangel
04-14-2016, 12:33 AM
Other related topic i want to talk about because i feel the established players base have very high expectation for steam lauch.

What would be a steam lauch success for you in term of steam players base ?

In my opinion, given the state of the tcc/ccg market and the steamchart.com numbers for actual ccg games : at ny time a average of 500 steam players in game at launch and a stabilize 300 steam players in game would be a big success (and a 500/600 average peak at new contents release). More would be a awesome success
But given the nature and quality of Hex we can hope for a constant increase year after year. Slow infusion more than a big bang

But it feels like it wouldn't be some kind of disapointment for lots of players here. So i ask. What do you expect ?

Cernz
04-14-2016, 12:35 AM
i expect less players active as there would be with a set4 realease by now ;)

starwing
04-14-2016, 02:48 AM
I'm excited about the Steam launch mainly because it'll be so much easier for me to share the game with my Steam friends! I'll make sure to launch it from Steam so that my hours of playtime will show on my Steam page, so people who wonder if it's better than other games in my list, they can easily see.

FinalLogic
04-14-2016, 12:32 PM
If they're watching Jeff's stream they'll buy the deck from hex primal instead ;)

That's what happened with Chris VanMeter! Between Hoogland and CVM, MTG players are joining Hex all the time.

FinalLogic
04-14-2016, 12:34 PM
Can you remove mercenaries as a prize from the well spin for now? I got one the other day that can't even be clicked on, and I had to google to find out that functionality hasn't been implemented yet. :(

FinalLogic
04-14-2016, 12:38 PM
I'm sure that Set 4 + Steam will make 1000+ people logged in each day.

I still remember MTGO early day where 2-3k people were logged in and there was activity. IT takes time to have people adopt your game. MTGO now has around 10-15k users all the time. It took them more than 10 years to get there + all the growth they did on the paper side.

It takes time to get players and they need set released on a constant base so that they keep the old players and incorporate the new ones. Hex and its Publisher understand that i'm sure. 120,000 users i don,t think so. 120,000 Logins maybe.

Here's hoping to a huge 2016 year where hex double its user base :)

Solution: Hex needs a paper side. :) Other than the occasional RNG, this game could be adapted to paper very easily...

plaguedealer
04-14-2016, 01:07 PM
Solution: Hex needs a paper side. :) Other than the occasional RNG, this game could be adapted to paper very easily...

Not to be argumentative, but Hex would be almost impossible to release on paper. There are a mulititde of cards that simply dont work in a paper tcg like ancestor's chosen, infernal professor, buffs being permanent, the set 4 savvas card, etc.

Angmar
04-14-2016, 01:11 PM
Not to be argumentative, but Hex would be almost impossible to release on paper. There are a mulititde of cards that simply dont work in a paper tcg like ancestor's chosen, buffs being permanent.

I'm going to guess that his comment was 100% sarcasm and a joke. Unfortunately sarcasm doesn't translate well in text.

frychikn
04-14-2016, 01:44 PM
I'm sure that Set 4 + Steam will make 1000+ people logged in each day.

I still remember MTGO early day where 2-3k people were logged in and there was activity. IT takes time to have people adopt your game. MTGO now has around 10-15k users all the time. It took them more than 10 years to get there + all the growth they did on the paper side.

It takes time to get players and they need set released on a constant base so that they keep the old players and incorporate the new ones. Hex and its Publisher understand that i'm sure. 120,000 users i don,t think so. 120,000 Logins maybe.

Here's hoping to a huge 2016 year where hex double its user base :)

doubling its userbase probably oonly gives us like 1k players if that

superdax
04-14-2016, 02:32 PM
Solution: Hex needs a paper side. :) Other than the occasional RNG, this game could be adapted to paper very easily...

Yeah i see putting sockets in my physical cards :)

Chark
04-14-2016, 02:34 PM
Random troops are the worst when R&D playtests early versions of a set on paper. "Someone give me a 2 costed Wild troop!" "Wild Child." "Damn it!"

superdax
04-14-2016, 02:37 PM
doubling its userbase probably oonly gives us like 1k players if that

Yeah when I say that, its more in the PVP side. We are not really able to mesure the PVE side of the game.
If we get 2000 users constantly in the PVP everyday, I'm happy. from there it can just grow. (I hope)

superdax
04-14-2016, 02:38 PM
Random troops are the worst when R&D playtests early versions of a set on paper. "Someone give me a 2 costed Wild troop!" "Wild Child." "Damn it!"

I did not realize, but indeed when you guys test the set early on you do it with paper :) Must be funny and frustrating to simulate ramdomness and certain aspects.

hex_colin
04-14-2016, 02:55 PM
I did not realize, but indeed when you guys test the set early on you do it with paper :) Must be funny and frustrating to simulate ramdomness and certain aspects.

It involves someone not in the game filtering Card Manager to the appropriate cards and then the player rolling dice to get a result. It's hilarious. And those are the easy ones. There is a mechanic in the Kraken dungeon (at least when I tested it) that had me filling out hundreds of tiny slips of paper and adding them to cards in my deck. It was math problem every time I drew or played a card. ;)

Metronomy
04-14-2016, 02:56 PM
..
If we get 2000 users constantly in the PVP everyday, I'm happy. from there it can just grow. (I hope)


I think this number is (sadly) way off. We dont have 1k people playing pvp at the moment on a daily basis. It just isnt there. Not close..

But we will have steamcharts when steam comes. So then we will have some real numbers to talk about.

frychikn
04-14-2016, 03:05 PM
I think this number is (sadly) way off. We dont have 1k people playing pvp at the moment on a daily basis. It just isnt there. Not close..

But we will have steamcharts when steam comes. So then we will have some real numbers to talk about.

this.

also, even though you can "f2p" your way to things, this game just doesnt seem like its for "f2P players" at all. When steam comes out, how many players do you think are honestly going to jump into constructed? I'd bet like none. I think a realistic way of thinking is, players are going to come and play the campaign. have some fun and eventually beat it, then ask when the next part will come out and get a "we have no clue tbh" and be turned off from the game. Then players will tell them all the things they can do like farm content they've already played and sell things on the AH to play in draft etc etc. Honestly how many people are going to want to farm content for little plat to eventually play in the paid mode?

I can promise a good portion of the players are going to finish the campaign, be displeased that there is so little and then "take a break". The few players that will want to grind, will do so, scrape together enough to draft, then lose first round to experienced players.

I honestly dont see this going well for hex.

hammer
04-14-2016, 03:17 PM
Nonsense the product is awesome and some percentage of new players will see drink the coolaid especially with new Cory video ;)

Salverus
04-14-2016, 03:19 PM
if they divide PvP into categories there will also be more players playing PvP with the same playerbase, I assume (for the random opponent). Because if you don't have a t1 deck, there is no point trying a random match.

Mejis
04-14-2016, 03:39 PM
if they divide PvP into categories there will also be more players playing PvP with the same playerbase, I assume (for the random opponent). Because if you don't have a t1 deck, there is no point trying a random match.

Or we could have an actual ladder/ranking system in place that is visible and engenders a sense of progression for any f2p-ers that don't want to move into limited/competitive constructed.

Tazelbain
04-14-2016, 03:45 PM
if they divide PvP into categories there will also be more players playing PvP with the same playerbase, I assume (for the random opponent). Because if you don't have a t1 deck, there is no point trying a random match.The answer "now what?" after you ran through the campaign a few times is lacking.

bizznach
04-14-2016, 03:48 PM
wait there is a new cory video?

Tazelbain
04-14-2016, 03:49 PM
wait there is a new cory video?Read the article.

whiteyzz
04-14-2016, 03:58 PM
Hopefully it comes with a patch for f2p users to have fun with.

Like a ladder system so all the players running top tier decks quickly go to the top and facing each other while the new players only have to deal with such decks once or twice. Also easier gold to platinum trading (hey new player quick learn about the mailing system and not the actual card game, and you better figure out the proper gold to platinum rate!)

frychikn
04-14-2016, 04:10 PM
Hopefully it comes with a patch for f2p users to have fun with.

Like a ladder system so all the players running top tier decks quickly go to the top and facing each other while the new players only have to deal with such decks once or twice. Also easier gold to platinum trading (hey new player quick learn about the mailing system and not the actual card game, and you better figure out the proper gold to platinum rate!)

do marketing teams get no say in digital card games? seems they should have done research if those things arnt coming with the steam release.

superdax
04-14-2016, 07:20 PM
I think this number is (sadly) way off. We dont have 1k people playing pvp at the moment on a daily basis. It just isnt there. Not close..

But we will have steamcharts when steam comes. So then we will have some real numbers to talk about.

Yeah i did not say that we will have 2k. My original post says that with steam and Set 4 we'll get 1k. and hopefully by the end of the year we'll double that.. I'll be happy with 1k for now. (in PVP that is )

Axle
04-14-2016, 07:26 PM
Hmm..

Shooter games can get 10k concurrent players on Steam on release day. Blacklight, Loadout and Gunz 2 are examples.

HEX? Maybe 5k max, realistically 1-2k. The f2p magic game had 10k players on day 1 but it has the Magic brand behind it. It really depends on when it releases though. I think the highest number for Infinity Wars was 1,600 on release day. I think HEX is a far greater game than Infinity Wars, but it's not just about that.

superdax
04-14-2016, 07:27 PM
Or we could have an actual ladder/ranking system in place that is visible and engenders a sense of progression for any f2p-ers that don't want to move into limited/competitive constructed.

In the long run, a Ranking system is the best, but there is easier way to do this for now. You could easily add a common only (pauper) consctructed format to the Gautlet. It probably requires alot less programming than doing a full ranking system.

F2P can easily acquire commons on the auction house with gold. They will have to pay for plat, but a gautlet lets you play a bunch of games and maybe win 1-2 packs even if your bad. Now new people get sent to draft and in my opinion its not a good idea to start. (and for those that think that it would split the player base, don't forget that it would also help bring alot more people to the gauthlet which would probably compensate that problem)

You could do it even friendly by adding a Gold payment option with smaller rewards (but might require more work).

In the end, if they want to do ranking, they won't take manpower to do something else and they will try to release the Ranking ASAP.

Doing both would actually be good also :) I'd really love to do some pauper gauthlet.

TOOT
04-14-2016, 08:12 PM
Pauper gauntlet with a lower entry fee and reward structure seems like a necessity and a great idea with a pending large influx of new players.

sukebe
04-14-2016, 09:46 PM
I would actually be up for a pauper or rock constructed gauntlet. How would you price it though and what would the prize structure be like? If you keep the prize structure the same the entry fee would need to stay the same (as the entry fee is to pay for the prizes), which seems a bit expensive for a gauntlet that is supposed to help new players get into tournaments.

TOOT
04-14-2016, 10:32 PM
Agreed that the price point has to be lower. Maybe something as simple as 100 plat entry, and it's either 3 wins or 3 losses and you're done. 3 Wins first gets you a pack and 3 losses gets you nothing? It's really just expanding length of play with the same entry + payouts as a heads up constructed tourney. 50% of entries would win, yea? Or just keep the same structure as heads up constructed, but add a pauper format.

Didn't really put too much thought into it but seems like it can work. New players can grind their way up if they have over a 50% winrate and provides some competitive constructed play for those on a budget with it being Pauper and all to begin with.

Ertzi
04-14-2016, 10:35 PM
If HexEnt can't officially say if they prefer players to play Steam-y HEX or non-Steam HEX, I think I am starting to lean towards linking the game to Steam. Just for the community and easy integration of non-HEX friends. I don't want to be left out of any possible features/marketplaces. After that I could also easily write a review on Steam, and I like the idea of seeing my play hours.

So, if there will never be an official guide to link up one's HEX account to Steam, how would one do it? Can you already do that? I have never had a reason to link non-Steam games to it before, so I really have no clue how to do this. Seems to me it's obvious to everyone else. :)

superdax
04-15-2016, 04:01 AM
Agreed that the price point has to be lower. Maybe something as simple as 100 plat entry, and it's either 3 wins or 3 losses and you're done. 3 Wins first gets you a pack and 3 losses gets you nothing? It's really just expanding length of play with the same entry + payouts as a heads up constructed tourney. 50% of entries would win, yea? Or just keep the same structure as heads up constructed, but add a pauper format.

Didn't really put too much thought into it but seems like it can work. New players can grind their way up if they have over a 50% winrate and provides some competitive constructed play for those on a budget with it being Pauper and all to begin with.

To start i would not change anything the structure of wins and losts because they would need to work on a different gautlet structure and again this takes time.

The fact that the cost to acquire the cards (common's can be acquired for gold quite easily) is already something in its own. Maybe a lower cost (but 100 plat would be too low ) but maybe in the 300 plat and give like 1 pack to 3 wins, 2 packs 4 wins and 3 packs 5 wins... somthing like that

but again, if it requires to much work, its better that they leave it and continue on ranking, but if its just like 1 - 2 days of work to arrange the payout, i would do it as it helps directs new players to a different experience with lower money investement.

majin
04-15-2016, 06:03 AM
the only reason why I will be using steam for hex is so my friends can see me playing it and hopefully entice them to try it out too

cedon
04-15-2016, 08:10 PM
Hey all, Glad to see you moving onto Steam, I'm guessing if i link my account, i'll be able to buy platinum through my steam wallet? (seems obvious but you never know) i will be spending a lot more on hex if so, (only spent money KS so far i have issues trying to use gameforge since it's in germany, don't ask, long boring and irritating story :)), steam wallet makes it SOOOoooo easy for me.

as a side note, if i link my account, will it affect my KS tier reward, 10%xp from Guild master?( or other similar KS tier bonuses)
thanks

ossuary
04-15-2016, 08:22 PM
Hey cedon,

Chark has previously confirmed that if you link your account on Steam, then when you go to buy Platinum in game, you'll go through a Steam portal page to get it instead of a GameForge one. I believe that means you'll be able to use your Steam wallet to make the purchase (others can probably confirm this particular bit better than me - I don't actually use Steam).

Linking to Steam will definitely not alter your KS rewards in any way - those are still tied to your Hex account no matter what, and won't change as a result. :)

fido_one
04-16-2016, 04:58 AM
Hey cedon,

Chark has previously confirmed that if you link your account on Steam, then when you go to buy Platinum in game, you'll go through a Steam portal page to get it instead of a GameForge one. I believe that means you'll be able to use your Steam wallet to make the purchase (others can probably confirm this particular bit better than me - I don't actually use Steam).

Linking to Steam will definitely not alter your KS rewards in any way - those are still tied to your Hex account no matter what, and won't change as a result. :)

With Gameforge saying there will be 'special packages' and the implication that those packages will be via Steam, I'm definitely going to be linking my account. I got bitten WAAY too many times with trying to play the discount game via giftcards on Gameforge and if steam has 'packages' to draw in players, beyond direct community tools, I can't imagine myself ever going directly through gameforge again. No disrespect to GF, I think they get a bad rap, it's just that Steam is better for me as a consumer going forward.

DraXor
04-16-2016, 08:28 AM
Hey cedon,

Chark has previously confirmed that if you link your account on Steam, then when you go to buy Platinum in game, you'll go through a Steam portal page to get it instead of a GameForge one. I believe that means you'll be able to use your Steam wallet to make the purchase (others can probably confirm this particular bit better than me - I don't actually use Steam).

Linking to Steam will definitely not alter your KS rewards in any way - those are still tied to your Hex account no matter what, and won't change as a result. :)

so if you link account with steam you wont be able to use gamfeorge epins?

ossuary
04-16-2016, 09:09 AM
I doubt that would be the case. If you log in to your account at hex.gameforge.com currently, there's an option there to "top up your platinum." I've never done it myself, but I assume it's pretty much the same as buying plat in-game currently, so they probably have similar options there. That being said, it might be worth checking out that link before connecting to your Steam account, so you know for sure.

Kami
04-16-2016, 09:16 AM
I doubt that would be the case. If you log in to your account at hex.gameforge.com currently, there's an option there to "top up your platinum." I've never done it myself, but I assume it's pretty much the same as buying plat in-game currently, so they probably have similar options there. That being said, it might be worth checking out that link before connecting to your Steam account, so you know for sure.

I've done it before. It's pretty much equivalent to the in-game to browser thing.