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Thread: Subscriptions are going to Dilute the Value of this Game

  1. #1

    Subscriptions are going to Dilute the Value of this Game

    The original concern noted below the quote is now mute per update #7:

    There have been a lot of questions about the subscription feature. When naming it, we didn't really consider the dissonance that would occur with HEX, a free to play game, and the term 'subscription.' It's opt-in after all, providing each player a few packs each month at a discount and some cool bonus stuff like the monthly exclusive VIP tournament and the deck "goldfish" tool. It's all upside and none of it is needed to play. So, we're calling it the VIP Program to make sure nobody gets confused.

    We've also received a lot of questions from backers worried that players will game the system, opening multiple accounts to stack VIP Program booster packs. This program is intended to be one-per-player as a cool way to let our community access some packs at a discount and get some sweet bonus stuff. But, we do understand that there will always be a small percentage of players who are always looking to game the system. We're aware of this and have powerful analytical tools to determine when this is occurring and will handle those instances accordingly.


    Subscriptions are $4 and give 4x packs a month and entry into a tourn.

    Well, anyone who is hardcore on buying packs will simply make say 25x Alt accounts, spend $100 / month and get 100x packs and 25x tourn entries. Many will ask "What's the problem here. It's a win for the company which in turn will be a win for the user."

    Wrong. This is a loss for the end user. Whatever is the cheapest method of attaining cards will be the highest point the secondary market will be selling them. Basically, what I'm saying is that why on earth would anyone pay $2 for a pack of cards when you can get it for $1 and a free tourn entry?

    The long term value of our cards will quickly dilute. A reason why MTGO helped keeped it's prices up is that so many cards are removed from circulation from set redemption. This isn't the case here. Card values can quickly implode as the company continually cheapens it's product.

    Also, what I fear is the fact that cards can "improve" via an experience bar. What is to stop this guy who has the incentive for 25x accounts to use the bot that will inevitably be created and "Foil Out" all his cards with low risk of loss to sell on AH.

    I have a lot of fears about this game and am trying to bring to light these huge red flags I see before making any monetary commitment.
    Last edited by Stok3d; 05-15-2013 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Update #7 made concern Mute

  2. #2
    I agree its a concern. Someone suggested not being able to trade subscription boosters, only the cards inside them but there is still the problem of people having multiple subscriptions as the cheapest way to acquire cards..

  3. #3
    Master Theorycrafter
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    There are ways that they could go about limiting it, and I believe they should. However, a person getting 10 subs for 40 a month, or a person getting 100 subs for 400 a month, still puts that much money in their pockets. Crypto makes either way you slice it, and people get boosters. Then people open or use boosters for sealed/draft. Then people need more boosters.

  4. #4
    Though I do see your point, the fact currently TCG priced are set high does not mean newer games should do the same. For example, there is a TCG called Shadow Era, which definitely is not at the level of Magic, WOW TCG but decent compared to many others. You can buy a pack for $1. In fact, you could even get physical cards + complete digital card play set for <$100.

    The point is yes. you may not have a resell value of card like Magic, but if the price point is made right maybe reselling is not even needed. Personally I am not a big spender, but if I can get complete play set for $100-$200 then I'll probably more likely to spend those money because every month it is essentially like I'm buying a video game.

    My guess is if you make a TCG that costs as much as Magic, it just won't be as big. So they should make a game as good as magic but cheaper to play for everyone will attract overall player i.e. targeting those who don't/couldn't play magic because of the high price point.

    So personally $1/pack is a sweet spot assuming they won't make ridiculously high legendary/rare ratio to compensate this i.e. we have to buy so many packs to get all the cards.

    In fact, these will probably open up a huge number of people who had never played draft before.

    20 ppl playing draft intensely every day with higher price value vs. 100 ppl playing draft casually with less price per person. I think the right business model in TCG right now (because of Magic) is the latter.
    Last edited by MugenMusou; 05-14-2013 at 09:06 PM.

  5. #5
    They could just bind your payment method to your account, even if temporarily.

    If this credit card has been used on an account in the past month, it cannot be used for another account.

    They don't even need to associate your account with the information, allowing them to protect your privacy should they get hacked.

    Also, this method you're describing is highly inconvenient. It's feasible, a simple process to execute on, but it's a huge pain in the ass. The number of people who would consider doing this should be fairly insignificant, even if it winds up being 50% of the KS pledgers doing it, and the amount that commit to it will be even smaller.

  6. #6
    A lower price for cards just means that each player will be able to experience more of each set. In the end, the value of cards will still be relative to rarity and the price paid. A $1 price tag on a pack doesn't make it free, it just likely cuts the price of individual cards to 1/4 of what they would be if packs were $4. A collection however, doesn't automatically become less valuable. It's more likely to simply contain more cards.

  7. #7
    lol, I didn't even think of that. While I wish PvE play could earn you PvP cards, I understand that keeping it separate is an easy way to eliminate card farming by bots. I never considered the subscription as a method for booster farming. If someone wanted to set up a secondary market store, they could sign up for 200, 300, one thousand accounts and crack packs to set up a singles store, or sell boosters for $1.50 depending on how tedious it would be to trade packs between accounts.

    I have no problem at all with boosters being cheaper, and cards in general being cheaper, as long as they retain a relative value to each other through the normal supply and demand, but where I originally thought that giving everyone a booster a week was a good way to tempt everyone to draft once a week, I can see how it could potentially lead to people never buying boosters direct from the Cryptozoic store.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueMagician View Post
    They could just bind your payment method to your account, even if temporarily.

    If this credit card has been used on an account in the past month, it cannot be used for another account.

    They don't even need to associate your account with the information, allowing them to protect your privacy should they get hacked.

    Also, this method you're describing is highly inconvenient. It's feasible, a simple process to execute on, but it's a huge pain in the ass. The number of people who would consider doing this should be fairly insignificant, even if it winds up being 50% of the KS pledgers doing it, and the amount that commit to it will be even smaller.
    Trust me, if you can buy packs for essentially $1 a piece with a free tourn entry, the packs will become valued at $1 max aftermarket. Some guy will have 1000x subscriptions (if business is good) to simply AH them for $1 and then get his tourn entry for free. Don't be naive and think that it will be insignificant or work any other way.

    Now that you realize this, lets brainstorm the repercussions.

  9. #9
    Master Theorycrafter
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    But, ALL boosters originate from somewhere(Cryptozoic) so they are still making money on packs, regardless of how they are purchased.

  10. #10
    The repercussions is that Constructed formats are cheaper. That doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. This is going to happen from launch, so whatever the market settles at with this in play will just the be regular price of things. But, the value lost is the value people thought they were getting when the kickstarted. In the long run, cheaper cards will save players money while still getting to play the game.

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