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Thread: HEX & E-Sports: Pay to Win & Tournament Accounts

  1. #1
    Master Theorycrafter
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    HEX & E-Sports: Pay to Win & Tournament Accounts

    Hello Everyone!

    I have just released a new video looking at the E-Sport needs of Hex.

    Hex TCG & E-Sports!!

    I want to break down a little further the biggest obstacle and controversial solution I present. In my opinion the most difficult block for Hex will be the "pay to win" stigma that surrounds trading card games. The pay wall will be high to compete on the world stage and the skill wall even higher. If the cost to be competitive is no brought to a reasonable level then the concept of Hex as a serious E-sport is DoA.

    What I suggest is a special tournament account that resets after each event and is open to all players who enter official CZE e-sport events. These accounts will have a play set of all relevant PvP cards available to deck build. The player will have 10-20 minutes to construct their deck prior to the event time and they will receive no double back rewards while they participate in the event. Their win/lose record is the only data that will carry over to their primary account. Winnings if any may also be sent to the primary account.

    In addition when this is implemented a greater amount of digital account bound goodies are introduced at the event for those players who choose not to use a tournament account.

    If this is implemented players can make the choice of which account to use. New players, returning players, and resource starved players can gain a foot hold and play with the experienced invested veterans on equal terms. World tournaments are not a special club for those with discretionary spending but a place to test your skill and deck theory. This will help eliminate the stigma of pay to win while leaving incentives for those who have dropped the money already.

    I only suggest this solution for live events like regionals, nationals and worlds level of competition. Standard constructed tournaments online or in specific independent leagues are not eligible. Drafts and sealed tournaments do not need tournament accounts and the more creative formats should also be ineligible.

    Providing a full play set at the highest level of competition is a radical solution but the difference of skill is not the cards you own but how you play them.

    ~ Mokog
    HexHunterMokog:

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  2. #2
    I like this idea a little. I wouldn't want it to be anywhere close to the dominant format though - hundreds of people all playing the identical "best" deck doesn't really excite me. It would end up being much less to do with skill, and more to do with who got the best draws.

    Limited formats exist to level the playing field. Non-limited, and therefore "pay to win", formats exist to provide a bit of variety outside of the limited formats
    Hex: Shards of Fate KS || Producer

    "The Magi of the Carloth highlands are renowned for their enthusiasm and generosity."
    "Speed is far more important than size when determining the power of a strike."
    "One needs no armor if both your mind and your fist are faster than your enemy's."

  3. #3
    Also, "Pay to win" formats are much worse in a physical TCG - regional scarcity and lack of information (not having access to all available information about the scarce cards you're trying to source) have a big impact on pricing. In an online digital marketplace, everyone will have more access to more of the cards. They still might not be as inexpensive as you'd like, but I'm willing to bet you'll have a much easier time getting a hold of the competitive tournament cards.
    Hex: Shards of Fate KS || Producer

    "The Magi of the Carloth highlands are renowned for their enthusiasm and generosity."
    "Speed is far more important than size when determining the power of a strike."
    "One needs no armor if both your mind and your fist are faster than your enemy's."

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by hex_colin View Post
    Limited formats exist to level the playing field. Non-limited, and therefore "pay to win", formats exist to provide a bit of variety outside of the limited formats
    Yeap draft could as well be ur e-sports fodder; cheap to play, competitive, and if u turn out to be good free. Or they could give free boosters to ppl at e-sports to draft
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    Questions about hex? Check my FAQ, Want to work as a game designer?CZE's Apprentiship Program

  5. #5
    Hero of Adamanth
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    I dont like this idea at all. Everyone having to use their own cards is the fun of collecting.

  6. #6
    It's also just not pay to win. You can't buy a buff that increases your chances over someone else. You can buy cheap cards and make competitive decks, some of them will beat the most expensive decks.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    It's also just not pay to win. You can't buy a buff that increases your chances over someone else. You can buy cheap cards and make competitive decks, some of them will beat the most expensive decks.
    That's what the quotes around "pay to win" were for Especially in this game where it looks like you'll probably be able to "grind to win" too... Not quite as easy as cold, hard cash, but eminently possible...
    Hex: Shards of Fate KS || Producer

    "The Magi of the Carloth highlands are renowned for their enthusiasm and generosity."
    "Speed is far more important than size when determining the power of a strike."
    "One needs no armor if both your mind and your fist are faster than your enemy's."

  8. #8
    Gigantisaur
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    While I understand the direction this idea is coming from, "Tournament Accounts with all cards unlocked" are a terrible idea for a trading card game.

    A player who has never played with the cards they are using will not do well at a regional-or-higher-level Constructed tournament.
    Last edited by hacky; 06-24-2013 at 06:03 PM. Reason: clarification
    http://raptr.com/badge/8dcf0b428b1b1...2e135d/fss.png
    Cryptozoic Champion: CZE Volunteer #517 - South Bay Area, California
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hacky View Post
    While I understand the direction this idea is coming from, this is a terrible idea for a trading card game.

    A player who has never played with the cards they are using will not do well at a regional-or-higher-level Constructed tournament.
    Not defending the idea, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but...

    They could easily have a mode in the game where you have access to any cards you wanted to play against your friends. That would provide a training ground for the type of tournament the OP suggests.

    Also, 1 YouTube video of the deck and a 30 minute discussion of how to play it probably makes a lot of people who play this game reasonably competent with a given deck.

    A combination of both of these = OP suggested tournaments with lots of people with the same deck = luck and not skill deciding the outcome.

    Given the number of people generating content for the game already - before it's already released - I'll be shocked to turn up at a tourney and see an completely unspoiled competitive deck that upends the metagame. There might be the occasional "oh, I haven't seen that card used that way, that's kind of cool", but a completely novel deck? Not going to happen.
    Hex: Shards of Fate KS || Producer

    "The Magi of the Carloth highlands are renowned for their enthusiasm and generosity."
    "Speed is far more important than size when determining the power of a strike."
    "One needs no armor if both your mind and your fist are faster than your enemy's."

  10. #10
    Gigantisaur
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    Quote Originally Posted by hex_colin View Post
    Not defending the idea, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but...

    They could easily have a mode in the game where you have access to any cards you wanted to play against your friends. That would provide a training ground for the type of tournament the OP suggests.

    Also, 1 YouTube video of the deck and a 30 minute discussion of how to play it probably makes a lot of people who play this game reasonably competent with a given deck.

    A combination of both of these = OP suggested tournaments with lots of people with the same deck = luck and not skill deciding the outcome.

    Given the number of people generating content for the game already - before it's already released - I'll be shocked to turn up at a tourney and see an completely unspoiled competitive deck that upends the metagame. There might be the occasional "oh, I haven't seen that card used that way, that's kind of cool", but a completely novel deck? Not going to happen.

    It might be that a larger scale and the online nature of the game makes completely novel decks harder to keep under wraps, but I'm drawing on my WoWTCG experience to say that it absolutely does happen. Innovative decks, previously undiscovered combos, and known decks that take an established metagame by surprise can and will happen.

    As for a deck training ground, that really defeats the purpose of a trading card game. Why would I ever buy any cards if I can playtest to my hearts content with any cards I want? A player could just play infinitely in the training ground, and then just show up to a regional-level tournament.

    Not only that, the decks at the highest levels of play are so tuned for efficiency down to the single card AND to the player's playstyle, that allowing players to bypass the deck collection aspects of a TCG is a disservice to everyone who buys even a single card.

    I think that the "computer game" aspect of HEX is overstated with this idea. I am definitely viewing HEX as a "trading card game".
    http://raptr.com/badge/8dcf0b428b1b1...2e135d/fss.png
    Cryptozoic Champion: CZE Volunteer #517 - South Bay Area, California
    I'm on Twitch! Follow me at twitch.tv/hackychannel
    HexTCG Grand King Team Illusive will definitely be playing Hex... as <Norvic Santos>?

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