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Thread: One free re-draw

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquetto View Post
    Except that if such a rule was in effect, sensible players would use less than 1/3 of their deck as resources, thus reducing the chance of mana flood.
    Some math (numbers from here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/m...hreads/3944651 ). Let's say a deck has 24 resources in it with the current system. There's a 30.8% chance of getting 3 resources. There's a 2.1% chance of no resources and a 12.1% chance of 1 resource (both of which you are probably going to mull).

    Now let's say you get a free mull with 0 or 7 resources. You decide to drop to 20 resources in your deck. Now you have a 26.9% chance of 3 resources in your starting hand. There's a 4.8% chance of no resources (just over double the previous chance for a free mull) and a 19.8% chance of only 1 land.

    You've decreased your chances at getting 3 resources by about 4%. You've also increased your chances of a 1 land hand by almost 8%. Meanwhile you've only increased your chances at a free mull by 2%. Is it really worth it to run less resources? You've also made it so that running a hand with less than 3 resources is more dangerous because you have even less chance to draw into them.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DeusPhasmatis View Post
    But it's all kind of moot, since PvP is balanced by symmetry; any advantage to you is an advantage to your opponent.
    But some types of decks and play styles would benefit more from a free mulligan than others would, so unless both players are playing the same deck, then it's not balanced. And it wouldn't be good for the meta to push players towards playing the same types of decks.

    Further, if I have a well constructed deck and draw a hand that doesn't need to be mulliganed, then how is allowing my opponent to have a free mulligan an advantage to me? At a minimum, I would say that if my opponent gets a free mulligan, then I should be able to get a free redraw and then choose which of the two draws to keep.

    But the current mulligan system is fine just the way it is and shouldn't be changed.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by noragar View Post
    But some types of decks and play styles would benefit more from a free mulligan than others would, so unless both players are playing the same deck, then it's not balanced. And it wouldn't be good for the meta to push players towards playing the same types of decks.
    And the current mulligan system is perfectly balanced for all deck types?

    Further, if I have a well constructed deck and draw a hand that doesn't need to be mulliganed, then how is allowing my opponent to have a free mulligan an advantage to me? At a minimum, I would say that if my opponent gets a free mulligan, then I should be able to get a free redraw and then choose which of the two draws to keep.

    But the current mulligan system is fine just the way it is and shouldn't be changed.
    I think you misunderstood. You both have the opportunity for a free mulligan (and again, I'm only advocating free mulligans in the case of 0/7 resources in hand) so it's not an "advantage" to either side.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
    And the current mulligan system is perfectly balanced for all deck types?
    As perfectly balanced as it's going to get since the cards were balanced with the current mulligan system in place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
    You both have the opportunity for a free mulligan (and again, I'm only advocating free mulligans in the case of 0/7 resources in hand) so it's not an "advantage" to either side.
    If one style of play has an unusually low or unusually high percentage of resources in their deck, then they would have 0 or 7 resources in their hand more often than a "normally" constructed deck. Therefore, those decks would get to use the free mulligan more often than the other side. That would make it an "advantage" to that side.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by noragar View Post
    But some types of decks and play styles would benefit more from a free mulligan than others would
    Only risky decks/strategies benefit more from a free mulligan, and they're still riskier after the extra mulligan. Consistent decks benefit more in a relative measurement.

    Further, if I have a well constructed deck and draw a hand that doesn't need to be mulliganed, then how is allowing my opponent to have a free mulligan an advantage to me?
    It isn't. Just like the Paris mulligan style isn't an advantage to you in the same situation. Any mulligan rule is of no advantage to you if you don't need/use it but your opponent does.

    The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by noragar View Post
    As perfectly balanced as it's going to get since the cards were balanced with the current mulligan system in place.



    If one style of play has an unusually low or unusually high percentage of resources in their deck, then they would have 0 or 7 resources in their hand more often than a "normally" constructed deck. Therefore, those decks would get to use the free mulligan more often than the other side. That would make it an "advantage" to that side.
    See my analysis with numbers above. Dropping from 24->20 resources as an example. You end up gaining a 2% chance (for a total 4% chance) at a free mulligan while simultaneously increasing your chances at a 1 resource hand by 7% (and NOT getting a free mulligan out of that) and reducing your chances at getting 3 resources in your hand by 4%. That's not an advantage.

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