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Thread: Print-Run Data Entry

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Print-Run Data Entry

    I was going to do this privately in a small group, but it makes much more sense to make this a collective project. For us to publicly get information about print runs, we need to collect a decent enough sample size. Print-run information should be public and not left to a select few who benefit.

    As such, I have a simple entry form here:

    The results will post here and will be public for anyone to anlayze:

    Only enter your commons and only enter your commons if you have data for all 11 (do not make up data).

    Please enter your username.

  2. #2
    Master Theorycrafter
    Join Date
    May 2013
    New Zealand
    Good idea, I'll definately be adding some of my draft packs into this

  3. #3
    If it gets figured out, they will change it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shivdaddy View Post
    If it gets figured out, they will change it.
    Why would they? It will only ever affect draft, because people will be able to figure out the cards that might have been picked out of a pack they just got passed. It will never be able to be abused to get certain cards out of a pack. Thats true across pretty much every MMO with RNG. You never know the seed, so you can never abuse it. That simple.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.

  5. #5
    Just curious if they mentioned that there was actual the concept of print runs with Hex?
    Cornerstone - For geriatric gamers - Premier card database site

  6. #6
    yes it was just confirmed in another thead minutes ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Chark View Post
    Print runs in commons exist, but it's not a consistent print run across multiple packs you open. Print runs just help you read signals in draft (i.e. this common appears next to these two--so when it's missing, I know someone is in that shard to my right).
    Quote Originally Posted by Chark View Post
    I'm sure I'm a lone voice in the wilderness here, but I hate that feature so much. Of all the horrible weaknesses of the physical medium, I can't believe that anyone would not only choose to retain this one, but actually make a development effort to implement a flaw that wouldn't naturally exist in a digital game.
    The fact that you can't tell between print runs and a random distribution of commons in a pack speaks to the fact that this is not really an issue. It's been like this since Alpha.

    It's not a flaw. Believe it or not, physical TCGs can both collate using print runs and 100% randomly. Some TCGs have print runs and some are completely random. We chose to have print runs to give more depth to drafts at the top end.

    I feel the same way. Last I heard that was only speculation, and I'm sorry to hear that it's been confirmed. I feel the same way about it as I do about the recent discussions on changing the shuffler to avoid resource screw and imitate resource weaving from physical games. Random should mean random, with the only restriction being the rarity distribution and no duplicates in a pack.
    Let's not conflate randomizing the deck with how we present a subset of cards in a pack. Just because one is random, doesn't mean that the other has to be.

    I want to have to make decisions between all the possible arrangements of commons, not just a limited subset.
    The fact that you don't notice this during the draft right now (feature has been in since Alpha) probably means that there are enough arrangements of commons to make it appear random enough.

    Bottom line: it's not like we print off the same run of 11 commons for each pack. You would notice that very quickly. The algorithm is more complicated than that and provides a better play experience.
    Also to nip this in the butt right now. Like Xen said Print runs will in no way allow cherry picking packs because of the way pack opening works in hex. If you don't believe me fine but please don't have that discussion in this thread.
    Last edited by negativeZer0; 06-04-2014 at 07:06 AM.

  7. #7
    @ syphon / anyone that actually knows what is involved in doing this
    forgive my ignorance on this but don't we need consecutive packs to figure this out not just one pack at a time?

  8. #8
    Hey, Zubrin.

    I've entered some packs for you and I'll enter a bunch more during the day today.

    I wanted to post to help get people started in understanding the print run for commons in set 001.

    There are two major tracks for the commons plus two cards that get inserted which do not appear at this time to follow the run at spot 3 and 11. Most of the time, track 1 will be cards 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 while track 2 will consist of cards 7, 8, 9, and 10. However, there are times when track 2 will bleed over to card position 6 which I will explain momentarily.

    Both tracks have cards that are specific to that track, meaning they can't appear in the other track. The tracks also share a pool of cards that can be found in either track. I believe there are at least 3 sheets of commons, though possibly more. One is only found on track 1. One is only found on track 2. And one can be seen anywhere in the pack. The insert cards can be any common in the set. Track 2 will include common 6 only when both tracks contain cards from the sheet that is dual track.

    I've inserted a picture of a pack to help illustrate what I'm talking about. In the example, track 1 (red) is being fed by the sheet shared by both tracks while track 2 (blue) is being fed by the sheet of commons that only is found on track 2. Notice that track 1 gets the position 6 card in this scenario.

    I hope this isn't too confusing and maybe people can pick up this info and try to figure out if there is a pattern to the insert cards.

    Pack Example.jpg

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by negativeZer0 View Post
    @ syphon / anyone that actually knows what is involved in doing this
    forgive my ignorance on this but don't we need consecutive packs to figure this out not just one pack at a time?
    For the commons, no. You just need lots of pack examples. But we may never figure out how the insert commons work due to not being able to get consecutive pack results and uncommons are probably impossible as well since each one seems to be on its own track from what I have observed so far.

  10. #10
    Thanks TJ, that picture and post is very helpful. Part of the reason to open the project beyond my small group is to get people who know more about this than I do.

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