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Thread: Convocation arena drop rates

  1. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
    First of all, the separation is easy. Legendaries come from paid packs only on the paid side of the game. The convocation packs are something you can farm in-game without spending money. Chase items generated for free by the system are very different than purchased items.
    Forgive me, but I don't think that is different at all. Setting aside the convocation packs for a moment, we have a platinum economy that is largely driven by the input of cash from outside and a gold economy that is largely driven by the input of time from outside (bearing in mind that there's an uphill battle against Frost Fatigue playing a factor here). These are not separated by an insurmountable barrier, but a semi-permeable membrane. There are strict reasons to hold gold or platinum, but there is also an exchange between them.

    I'm restating all this to point out that there's no such thing as a 'PvE only' or 'PvP only' reward. The two are directly (and deliberately) linked together. You can't say, for instance, that one can only get packs on the PVP side or that convocation packs are only PvE side. It's also not true that primarily PvP players don't receive value from a PvE reward, or vice versa.

    On that basis I totally reject the idea that 'Free items obtained via time commitment versus paid items are a very different thing'. They are sometimes (most specifically in the case of a WoF spin that brings up a pack reward) exactly the same thing. There's certainly a question of exchange rate in terms of gold-to-platinum which is best managed by the player market, but ultimately hurling time at the game should be more or less equivalent to hurling money at it, for a certain value of (time:money) and subject to the idea that each currency can be more useful for purchasing certain things.

    I know, a lot of these points were's made explicitly here. I'm trying to paint an overall picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
    The expectation is that a special event rewarding free items should reward someone for spending time on it.
    I also rather take issue with this. My arena runs thus far have given me no 2015 packs and the 13/14 packs have been duplicates of items I already had. They are nonetheless worth $80-$100 no estimates. Am I not rewarded?

    Do I have to get a whole catalog of what's available for it to be valuable at all?

    I really don't think so.

  2. #872
    Quote Originally Posted by TOOT View Post
    That has absolutely no bearing on what I am talking about.

    If hypothetically, Svenn had 33 2015 packs, and a Stormcoat was in 1 out of every 100 packs, he had a 33% chance to get one regardless of variance. If he had 3300 packs of the 2 year long event, and the new item was in 1 out of every 10,000 packs, he's still 33% and just as unlikely to get one. Variance is less in the higher amount of trials of course, but it doesn't change anything about the "1 week is too short of time period" argument.
    Sorry to be a pedant, but with a 1% chance of getting a stormcoat the odds of getting a storm coat in 33 packs is 1 - .99^33 = .28, so with 33 packs there's about a 28% chance of acquiring a storm coat. Opening 100 packs gives you about a 63% chance at that rate.

  3. #873
    Gigantisaur
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Athens Georgia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    chests are bugged to not drop properly in the arena any more
    Is this confirmed or just conjecture?
    The art work for opening the chest is very nice.

  4. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    Is this confirmed or just conjecture?
    Random Bonus chests do not appear and this is confirmed. Other chests (Boss Win, Perfect Tier) appear as normal.

  5. #875
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiredore View Post
    Personally I find the separation from buying things on the auction house difficult to understand.

    Once you rule that out then PvP Legendaries at all become very dicey and rares are quite difficult. If you're a collector, which is the only way this whole argument makes any sense, then you've basically made it impossible. No-one is going to pull up all the PvP cards they want from packs, as well as all the celebration cards an the assigned weekends, as well as winning the associated VIP tournaments ... I would be astonished if anyone (perhaps outside of Colin) has done it.

    It is simply not a realistic expectation. Now we can perhaps have a discussion about whether this expectation has been unrealistically foster by HexEnt in their communications, but to be honest I just don't see it.
    I think you must have forgotten Trading. You know, swapping goods for other goods? I have barely touched the AH at all (and by at all I mean I could have gotten everything I have barring AA Mastery of time without ever touching the AH if I chose to.) Yet I have a full 4x set 1+2 (and AA's in a fairly large number too - I am missing only a handful of non-collector AA's.)

    A player who puts in time and money should never need the AH if they are a good trader. Just wanted to point that out.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
    http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...erlinsmall.png

  6. #876
    Gigantisaur
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Athens Georgia
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    1,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyren View Post
    Random Bonus chests do not appear and this is confirmed. Other chests (Boss Win, Perfect Tier) appear as normal.
    Oh so the Kickstarter bonus is broke. Yeah that sucks.
    The art work for opening the chest is very nice.

  7. #877
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiredore View Post
    Forgive me, but I don't think that is different at all. Setting aside the convocation packs for a moment, we have a platinum economy that is largely driven by the input of cash from outside and a gold economy that is largely driven by the input of time from outside (bearing in mind that there's an uphill battle against Frost Fatigue playing a factor here). These are not separated by an insurmountable barrier, but a semi-permeable membrane. There are strict reasons to hold gold or platinum, but there is also an exchange between them.

    I'm restating all this to point out that there's no such thing as a 'PvE only' or 'PvP only' reward. The two are directly (and deliberately) linked together. You can't say, for instance, that one can only get packs on the PVP side or that convocation packs are only PvE side. It's also not true that primarily PvP players don't receive value from a PvE reward, or vice versa.

    On that basis I totally reject the idea that 'Free items obtained via time commitment versus paid items are a very different thing'. They are sometimes (most specifically in the case of a WoF spin that brings up a pack reward) exactly the same thing. There's certainly a question of exchange rate in terms of gold-to-platinum which is best managed by the player market, but ultimately hurling time at the game should be more or less equivalent to hurling money at it, for a certain value of (time:money) and subject to the idea that each currency can be more useful for purchasing certain things.
    Yes, there is a conversion back and forth between PvE and PvP. That has nothing to do with the way things enter the system though. The expectation is that PvP stuff comes from real money (no matter what, it does, whether it's the person that originally purchased it or not). The expectation for PvE stuff is that I am able to get it with time. If I want to convert one to the other, I can. However, when I can not realistically get the PvE stuff with my time that system has broken down. Now I have to spend the money on the PvE stuff if I want. No amount of time was able to get it for me.

    These are 2 very different systems that work together (and like I've said in the past, it's a great interaction). But this event broke the expectations of how the system should work.

    I also rather take issue with this. My arena runs thus far have given me no 2015 packs and the 13/14 packs have been duplicates of items I already had. They are nonetheless worth $80-$100 no estimates. Am I not rewarded?
    Must be nice to get that lucky.

    Do I have to get a whole catalog of what's available for it to be valuable at all?

    I really don't think so.
    You aren't a collector then. For a collector, our enjoyment comes from completing the collection. I don't even plan on using most of it. If I don't get the full thing, then it's not really valuable. There goes my enjoyment.

  8. #878
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    Oh so the Kickstarter bonus is broke. Yeah that sucks.
    No, the Dungeon Crawler Bonus still applies.
    The Random Bonus roll everyone got a chance at, after completing a tier boss, is broken.

  9. #879
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    I think there are several issues here combining to make people unhappy:

    -very limited time event, and Saturday was largely unplayable
    -very limited time event, and chests are bugged to not drop properly in the arena any more
    -the distribution of packs is heavily RNG. There are people who have spent as much time as I have and have gotten FOUR TIMES as much stuff. The event is almost over, I will never catch up. I am permanently behind.
    -the convocation packs contain pieces of a very fun, specific, thematic, pve deck. If you don't get ALL of it you are quite literally missing pieces of the deck 'as designed'. This, combined with Hex saying you should use this week to get everything you need for the deck because it will never be available elsewhere, makes people really, really, really want to grab all the pieces. And some of them are extremely hard to get, RNG behind RNG. If it had just been a collection of random cards I don't think people would have minded so much missing out on one of them.

    I don't particularly mind the AA cards being hard to get. They aren't content. I would definitely qualify 80+ hours and $120 plat or whatever Svenn spent as effort justifying obtaining 'hard to get' items. I haven't put in nearly that effort, don't have the AA cards, and it doesn't really bother me. I'm not a collector, so I have already resigned myself to not having all the AA's.

    My main issue is with the RNG causing huge swings in distribution of packs, and the rough # of hours needed per pack, and the total # of packs needed.
    Don't forget the game stopping Arena bug with Town Crier. That will always ruin a perfect run because you'd be insane to wait a half hour just for the game to time out.
    ---------

    Id like to apologize for the above statement. I commented in a very juvenile and offensive way that rightfully angered some posters. I regret it and sincerely apologize.

    ----------

    Pro + Grand King Backer. My Trade/Sell List. You can also browse my collection. Technically everything is for sale for a price.

  10. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenavire View Post
    I think you must have forgotten Trading. You know, swapping goods for other goods?
    Is trading for those goods markedly different in an economic sense if you do it goods-for-cash as opposed to goods-for-goods? I would have thought that once you enter the player-driven market the value you derive for what you have to offer and the value you can obtain will be very broadly similar (obviously there are fluctuations to take advantage of and you can always drive a particularly good or poor deal) but the primary advantage you get is access to a larger poll of rare items as opposed to having to roll them up yourself.

    Or is there a particular economic benefit to trading as opposed to using the Auction House that I'm missing?

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