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Thread: PvP: Please Ban Titania's Majesty

  1. #381
    oh...if the stess test triggers a response and they need time to come to a decision after that I'm all fine with that....I just dont hope we are having the same discussion in a month or two and that people then still say the meta needs time to be solved

  2. #382
    the mirror match is enough justification to get rid of the card

    even if you think that it's acceptable for 99% of deck archetypes to be completely unplayable because of this one deck, you still can't really ignore the mirror

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Biz View Post
    the mirror match is enough justification to get rid of the card

    even if you think that it's acceptable for 99% of deck archetypes to be completely unplayable because of this one deck, you still can't really ignore the mirror
    What?

  4. #384
    Infernal Professor
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    Once a completely derailing and unrelated note, TM mirrors have nothing on wowtcg arcane Mage mirrors or mtg stasis mirrors.
    IGN: FinalFantasy

    -The Darkmoon Unfair-

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    No, I didn't say anything about not everyone participating. I said that since you can't see decklists, you can't know what is doing well. And if the player base at large can't know what is doing well, they can only go with the buzz, which is majesty is OP. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, there is no sunlight on the esl decks, Otherwise why wasn't more people running BD? I've not heard of anyone that played a BD deck other than Galwen. If ESL is so important and it had done well there, why was no one aware of this?
    I guess I'm late so I'll give you another data point for this. I ran B/D in the tourny. VK, VP, AoD, Extinction, Withering touch the whole 9 yards. I went 4-4 overall. I faced TM 4 times. I lost to TM 4 times. Some of that was variance, sure. I'm not going to claim that my deck was the best and I lost to a BS deck that can't be beat, that would be hyperbolic. I am however fully in the camp that TM should be banned because of the results of my games vs. TM, both from private testing and my games in the stress test. There are a number of reasons.

    1. My most important point was found in my first game vs. TM. I had a good hand. 2 blood shards, 1 diamond shard, 1 murder, 2 martyr and an extinction. No withering touch but you can't draw it every game, I thought I had a great chance that game. Opponent had no ramp first 2 turns, awesome things are going great! I'm pulling 2 more shards but I that's ok, just brings extinction online turn 4. Then I got caught in the catch 22. Turn 3 he drops a periwinkle. Now what am I supposed to do? He's at 3 resources if he gets a shard next turn he can turn 4 TM. With peri on board it's a double TM. I am not running sapphire and am at 3 resources so no double verdict possible. Double TM means I'd potentially need 2 martyr, which is impossible with 3 resources. If I kill the periwinkle though then I can't do anything if he does hit shard into majesty. Well, I guess the odds are best to murder the peri. Turn 4 Majesty into Calamity, game over. What the hell was I supposed to do? Nothing I did was the right way to play against a good, not great, Majesty hand. That this can happen is just as concering as the random ramp into turn 3 TM play. Turn 3 TM is always going to require a good deal of luck. Hitting both a peri and a TM in the same opening hand vs an opponent who didn't get lucky enough to have withering touch in hand requires a bit of luck as well. But the combination of the two situations makes it entirely too likely that there is nothing you can do to stop a turn 3 or turn 4 loss NO MATTER WHAT DECK YOU BUILT.

    2. TM is not fun. It's not fun to play, did I hit my majesty yet? No? Then I didn't win yet. Better ramp up to 8 for rootfathers. Did I hit majesty? Yes. Then I've got a great chance to win within 2 turns.

    It's not fun to play against. Hold everything in hand for the first 5 turns, counter any moves made then pray that the endless supply of gas in a TM deck doesn't kill you before you can establish a minimal amount of board presence.

    3. TM with spellshield utterly subverts counterplay. Non sapphire decks have what, at most 4 cards out of 60 that can effectively counter a spellshielded big body? TM+peri means potentially 8 spellshielded bigs. This contained within a deck that forces you to underdevelop your board state in order to keep counter actions available means you are going to fall behind in a way that you cannot overcome a significant portion of the time EVEN IF YOU DRAW YOUR COUNTERS TO SPELLSHIELD. So the only answer seems to be to increase the number of counters in the deck to spellshield. The main way I can think to do this is to force yourself to play sapphire for the countermagics and verdicts. Forcing a specific shard to be played in order to be competitive is not the same as counterplay.
    Last edited by gruntwork; 09-06-2015 at 04:10 PM.

  6. #386
    Grunt it is kind of odd you lost all 4 matches against TM. It is the best counter to the deck and I would even go as far to say as it is a 70/30 favorite in the matchup. Im not calling you out as a bad player but maybe the people playing sided better in those matches

  7. #387
    It's fair play to question my play I suppose, I make my fair share of mistakes and never will claim to be the best deckbuilder of all time. That being said the result of my matches being 0-4 isnt the point of my post. Rather it's the way the deck plays that is the problem.

    I think I played pretty well in my 10 games, no obvious errors were present, and my sideboarding seemed to go well. I competed in 7 of my 10 TM matches. Two turn 3 losses and a turn 4 loss due to peri. I took two of my matchups to the third game. My deck did perform more or less as I expected it to, sideboard included. I even boarded in my 2 Solitary Exiles in my last match against TM which was the perfect counter to the Fist of Briggadoon my opponent was running, though I brought them for Soul Marble decks. I do not have objective perspective however so I can't say for certain that these were not a major contributor to my losses. Perhaps they were. That doesn't change the reasons I think TM should be banned. I don't want it banned because I lost but because of how it plays.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by poizonous View Post
    Grunt it is kind of odd you lost all 4 matches against TM. It is the best counter to the deck and I would even go as far to say as it is a 70/30 favorite in the matchup. Im not calling you out as a bad player but maybe the people playing sided better in those matches
    people always assume when a "anti-titania" deck does poorly against titania it is the players fault. but this isnt true even the best counter deck will do poorly against it more often then not (specially after side boarding).

    This is because we have limited options. You can try a rush deck, but more often then not they get a few blockers then turn 4 croc to shut you down.
    You can play a blue counter deck but even if you counter all 4 titanias with your verdicts you can then only counter 4 big troops and then you eventually die.
    If you play discard they need no set up so top decking a winning card is just as easy as having it in hand so discard doesnt help.
    And the biggest problem is in most decks you play a win condition and then it takes at least 4-5 turns to win in which your opponent can try to remove it or beat you to the win. With titania they play the win condition and win immediately or in 1-2 turns, so there is much less to no time to top deck an answer.

  9. #389
    Was playing in the ESL right now (TM mirror). My opp won the coinflip = won the match. Where is the skill here?

  10. #390
    did you have fun at least ?

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